Hard and soft caps on stats

I wouldn't cry if they removed reflect from the game. It's an anti-fun mechanic. It has no active counterplay (what you can do with your character), only passive (what you can do with your build).

As for stat caps, I don't think they are necessary since most things already have caps in some form or another. High level shit always boils down to avoiding the one-shot cheese while trying to do the same to the monsters. The game isn't balanced for defensive options, even though it tries to include a few. Usually the most important defenses that matter are max hp/es, resists, and physical dmg reduction. Everything else is fluff. Of course I am over-simplifying it a bit, but the point is true nonetheless. If defenses were properly balanced, the offensive options would be soft-capped via opportunity cost.

Then again, no amount of balance talk is relevant as long as GGG insists on busting the top 0.01% instead of making a fun experience for everyone else.

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goetzjam a écrit :

Technically there are soft caps to many of the things you've mentioned, but hard caps are an indication that game devs aren't willing to put forth effort to balance.

Or, that the game in its current state is so monumentally complex that "balance" can never be achieved.

Or neither. Some hard caps are part of the game's balance, and those caps are generally only broken under specific conditions or for a specific cost--such as elemental/chaos resist cap of 75%.

the only malus on linking too many support gems to skill gems (beside reflect as mark1030 already mentioned) used to be the higher mana consumption which was never really filling that role.

there need to be other drawbacks.
and as i'm lately a fan of diminishing returns, i can think of a (yeah beat me) malus on item rarity or quantity if you overkill a monster with your damage or kill bosses too fast.

let the tears roll!

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DirkAustin a écrit :

Crit chance shouldnt even get anywhere near the 100% tho. Put it at 50% cap at most. No wonder those COC builds were broken as all hell.
Crit multi should get some sort of cap too, like put it at 500% or so. Who needs more than to deal 500% of the damage they already deal?

Tanky builds shoulnd't get anywhere near 8k life. Let's cap life to 1, so everyone can manage to have 1 maximum life.
People shouldn't get anywhere near 10aps? let's cap attack per second to 2.

Seriously mate, the existing caps are very good. They are not the problem of the game: the problem is that now it's so easy to reach that cap. Movement speed is a per se topic: it should be nerfed, not putting a cap, while the worst movement skill erased from game (Whirling Blades).

Putting a cap to something makes it impossible to create a build on it: and that is something that GGG doesn't want to see reasonably. They want to enable build diversity: crit build? Spend points and invest money on crit gear; block build? do the same thing, ecc.

CoC is a per se topic: the problem is not taht people have 80% crit chance with CoC; CoC is a problem even with 10% crit chance since there are weapons and/or skills that makes you have insane attack per second, so it should be removed completely for balance sake.

I always hear this whine about CoC, but really it is just Cast on Hit that has gear/passive requirements. It doesn't need to be removed. Even if you think it's OP, then it just needs nerfs (which it has barely had). However, as you said, GGG want build diversity, and they don't really want to neuter it too much for the same reason that most of those stats don't need caps: You won't be able to make a build around it.

It's funny that no one seems to bat an eye at the defensive caps we've had since the beginning, but if you so much as mention any kind of offensive cap... GER BERK TER DERTHREE SCRERB

The game can't even render the amount of attack/spell spam you can achieve with CoC. For that reason alone, some form of a cap should be implemented on attackspeed/crit chance. But even from a high level design standpoint, what you can achieve in this game is flat out broken, and has been for a long time.

95% crit chance is pretty effing stupid, conceptually. As is attacking so fast that your character is just vibrating.

The speed of actions is what needs to be scaled back, if only because the game can melt even the most expensive GPU. I sincerely doubt that whatever graphics updates are in the pipeline will address this, because on a fundamental level you just can't render all the shit that this game allows to happen on screen.

The problem with crying "Nerf!" over something like CoC is that it's popularity is not just because it is strong. It's one of the more fun/exciting builds to play. One of the reasons games like WoW and LoL are bleeding out is because they have lived long enough to overnerf their own game, and all the excitement they once had is gone in the name of "balance."

Does it need a nerf? Probably. Would it be easy to kill the thing with almost any nerf? Absolutely. It's a fine line to walk.

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Albinosaurus a écrit :

The problem with crying "Nerf!" over something like CoC is that it's popularity is not just because it is strong. It's one of the more fun/exciting builds to play. One of the reasons games like WoW and LoL are bleeding out is because they have lived long enough to overnerf their own game, and all the excitement they once had is gone in the name of "balance."

Does it need a nerf? Probably. Would it be easy to kill the thing with almost any nerf? Absolutely. It's a fine line to walk.

It's pretty simple. Reduce the speed at which the thing can happen, and proportionately increase the power of the thing. I have no problem whatsoever with the power of things, it's only the speed (and frequency) of things that is an issue.

95% -> 50% crit chance
500% -> 1000% crit multi

(Don't nitpick the math, you get the idea.)

Such an approach would need to be skill specific. I don't think it would be healthy for that to be a global approach. For CoC, it sounds fine to me.