EXP penalty from death idea

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goetzjam a écrit :

When GGG indicates in every single Q\A thread that they are happy with the penalty that indicates there will not be any changes.


Just fyi they did change it in the past from 15% to 10, they've already made it less punishing then it was, no need to push your luck any further.

the thing is the simple system like this are punishing players on something that they cannot control such as lag or they happen to get caught in a 2 damage that 1 shot them.

The current system punish the player but it did not encourage the player to get back out there tor regain their exp.

If you actually read my exp pool regain suggestion, it only punish the glass cannon who are dying too much, not players who rarely die. That system punish player on death, but it also reward players to get back out there to get their exp back.

that idea is actually come from an old MMO-RPG game called Anarchy Online. In that game if you die you lose the entire bar of your unsave exp. But in that game, player wouldnt care much about taking risk, doing risky boss because they knew can regain back later. I once lost 90% of my exp on a single dead, I couldnt care much because the next each monster I kill I will get 50% more exp as long I wont die too again until I got all my exp back.

The current POE exp penalty system? I have seen many players quit because they died at 90+, lost hours of work just like that. The game punish you on death but it did not reward you for getting back into fight + survive without dying.


Exp penalty on 90+ is soo harmful that during maping, I end-up doing boss on my lvl 90 "yolo" ranger instead of my lvling 95 ranger who is obviously much stronger geared. But I still couldnt risk that there will be a small 5% chance "wtf thing" that could kill me.

So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous.

The only thing the current penalty does is make higher level players skip anything that can potentially instakill them, which is many things. It goes to the point where they aren't even aware of the mechanics and how to deal with them because trying to fight and learn is simply too risky and can make them lose hours of grinding (and currency spent on those maps). So we have people stuck in a safe bubble, even buying easy maps in bulk, and I can't really blame them since that's what the game teaches.

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mrjoey523 a écrit :

Hi guys!

I was thinking yesterday.. what if there was a way to earn back a portion of the exp lost when we die? Like instead of losing 2 bars due to a lag spike (which im not complaining by any means, its just part of the game from time to time), what if we could run back to where we died and once we are either like within a close radius to our body or hit an item/object signaling that its our corpse, it would give us back like 75% of the exp we lost.

10% seems like a moderately harsh penalty, and i'm only level 84. But being less than half a bar from leveling and then dc'ing to death, I just was thinking about it and wanted to share.

The other reason I mention it is because prior to me coming back to PoE the other week (was gone for a lil over a year, left midway through warbands I think), I had picked up the game Grim Dawn to see what it was, and they had this exact mechanic in it, and I actually loved it. Sadly though, the game has no actual endgame content (only 2 areas that you can repeatedly pretty much haha), so once you max out at level 85, you have to make a new char or switch games. There were actually some really cool mechanics inside Grim Dawn, and I think if PoE dev's reached out to Grim Dawn Dev's, they could work together to greatly improve some aspects of both games. I honestly feel like if PoE had Grim Dawn's atmosphere and combat feel, or Grim Dawn had PoE's type of endgame content, that game (the joining of two awesome ARPGs) would be like the Neo of ARPG's. It would truly be, the chosen one.

What do you guys think? :) all positive and/or negative feedback is appreciated!! cheers and have an awesome day gents

Think what it is like at level 93! :P

Honestly, the penalty is a barier that keeps you from leveling higher, than you skill allows you to. The better you get, the higher you can push your character. Lags, crashes and DCs are a thing, sadly. :v
There is no way to detect if you died to your own error, or DC/lag, so it sadly needs to punish in both cases. It is what it is, and so far nobody came up with a system which has the same function (the barrier one) but at the same time removes the annoying lag/dc deaths.

Also, keep in mind that not all of the content is meant to be done easily. If you want kill that one map-boss, that everyone skips (durp, Village Ruin), go for it. It creates some diversity, players have to chose, instead of taking a map, shoving it down the map device, and rolling it like every other map.

Its quite funny to me some of these responses from people.

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A temp SC league without death penalties or some way to gain XP back would probably be a worthwhile experiment. It seems that at least in these forums the majority of SC players would prefer to play without penalties.

Howso, considering like I've said they are happy with the penalty, what feedback are they going to get or whats the purpose of doing a league just to get confirmation on what the fact they are happy with it. Plus this no longer fits the idea that the temp SC league is identical to the temp HC league.

The forums are a terrible gauge of what players want. The people that are likely vocal here are always going to be the ones more likely to complain about something then they are to say "im happy with it"

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From my experience talking to people, all the penalty does is demoralize new players since it's linked to bad mechanics such as oneshots.

This again is false, new players aren't getting "punished" hard for their deaths because it only really becomes punishing in later levels, when they have had time to learn some of the game mechanics, like res, life, ect.

Death should be something you avoid in all ARPG style games, because its an indication of an issue, either low life, low res, low dps or misplay. Yes sometimes there are issues outside of the players control, but you cant balance for those one off very rare things, if they could they could revive HC characters on deaths as well, but they don't.

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the thing is the simple system like this are punishing players on something that they cannot control such as lag or they happen to get caught in a 2 damage that 1 shot them.

And this is partly likely why they reduced it from 15>10. That being said they did make massive improvements to the desync issue and introduced a method to basically bypass the issue altogether. In terms of other general lag issues, you can't balance the game for issues outside of the realm of the norm.

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The current system punish the player but it did not encourage the player to get back out there tor regain their exp.

Nor should it, the game in general is punishing, your incentive to level is already there. I thought long ago back when these discussions were more common a way to recover XP would be a nice idea, but after the changes to map XP and the general power creep the players have gotten (as well has the lockstep changes) all makes this unnecessary.

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If you actually read my exp pool regain suggestion, it only punish the glass cannon who are dying too much, not players who rarely die. That system punish player on death, but it also reward players to get back out there to get their exp back.

Right so it allows for careless play as long as you haven't been careless and punished for it "recently" Its just essentially free deaths as long as you aren't doing it very often.

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The current POE exp penalty system? I have seen many players quit because they died at 90+, lost hours of work just like that. The game punish you on death but it did not reward you for getting back into fight + survive without dying.

And if they quit instead of improving then they aren't "poe material" anyway. Not a big loss. I don't quit when I lose a hc character, which is far more punishing then 10% XP. I really don't need to hear excuses about how a SC player quit after he died once.

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Exp penalty on 90+ is soo harmful that during maping, I end-up doing boss on my lvl 90 "yolo" ranger instead of my lvling 95 ranger who is obviously much stronger geared. But I still couldnt risk that there will be a small 5% chance "wtf thing" that could kill me.

Its always a play where you could have a character just to kill bosses, funny enough I did actually do this for a while, not because I cared about the XP loss but because it had very high single target DPS. In terms of risking the characters XP for the one off thing, the more you learn the game the less likely you are to die to the random things that can kill you. I would say boss fights are a perfect example of not having as much randomness to them.

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So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous.

I find it ridiculous you do this as well. Very few map bosses are that sketch to warrant such caution in terms of opening boxes, wut? Just get a freeze immunity pot and a movement skill and click on it and use the movement skill, especially things like blink arrow are fantastic. If you honestly switch characters to open boxes, then idk. Do you not have an SSD or something?

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The only thing the current penalty does is make higher level players skip anything that can potentially instakill them, which is many things. It goes to the point where they aren't even aware of the mechanics and how to deal with them because trying to fight and learn is simply too risky and can make them lose hours of grinding (and currency spent on those maps). So we have people stuck in a safe bubble, even buying easy maps in bulk, and I can't really blame them since that's what the game teaches.

Yeah just like all HC characters skip anything that can kill them too \s

In terms of not learning because they never do it, there are many options to learn the mechanics outside of the risky hard map style "test" People can watch videos to see the fights, people can encounter the higher\harder maps in zana maps. People can run blue\white maps instead of rares to learn.

In terms on bulk easy maps, that is the clearspeed meta and the fact that back in 2.1 GGG nerfed red map XP hard, it created this situation where the most efficient\safe XP is lower maps, not the more difficult ones. Thats a GGG issue that needs to be fixed, probably.

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goetzjam a écrit :

In terms on bulk easy maps, that is the clearspeed meta and the fact that back in 2.1 GGG nerfed red map XP hard, it created this situation where the most efficient\safe XP is lower maps, not the more difficult ones. Thats a GGG issue that needs to be fixed, probably.

I noticed the same, I don't skip stuff, unless I absolutely can't deal with it but I would rather sell T14+ for a hefty amount of chaos orbs than run them, the EXP/loot rewards aren't that great.

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Raudram a écrit :

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goetzjam a écrit :

In terms on bulk easy maps, that is the clearspeed meta and the fact that back in 2.1 GGG nerfed red map XP hard, it created this situation where the most efficient\safe XP is lower maps, not the more difficult ones. Thats a GGG issue that needs to be fixed, probably.

I noticed the same, I don't skip stuff, unless I absolutely can't deal with it but I would rather sell T14+ for a hefty amount of chaos orbs than run them, the EXP/loot rewards aren't that great.

I mean you can still get the nice bases to sell and still have a better chance at higher maps inside of a higher map (because obviously your not going to get a T13-15 in an 11, unless a rare +box and magic happens)

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MrTremere a écrit :

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goetzjam a écrit :

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So doing mapping, I pick up full inventory of items, relog my weaker yolo lvl 90 to do the boss/opening strong box. I find this ridiculous.

I find it ridiculous you do this as well. Very few map bosses are that sketch to warrant such caution in terms of opening boxes, wut? Just get a freeze immunity pot and a movement skill and click on it and use the movement skill, especially things like blink arrow are fantastic. If you honestly switch characters to open boxes, then idk. Do you not have an SSD or something?

Think of it this way : no boss is worth taking even the smallest risk of losing hours/days of grinding, and very few strongboxes are. If you have even the slightest doubt, then it's definitely the right call to skip them. Switching to a yolo character is simply the next step in that logic => get the chance to get the loot despite skipping the content.

I mean the only strongboxes that really kill are ones that you refuse to move out of the way of, like ice nova and poison cloud.

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MrTremere a écrit :

Think of it this way : no boss is worth taking even the smallest risk of losing hours/days of grinding, and very few strongboxes are. If you have even the slightest doubt, then it's definitely the right call to skip them. Switching to a yolo character is simply the next step in that logic => get the chance to get the loot despite skipping the content.

Exactly, usually you will survive that if you decently geared. But....

The reason I do this is because of the small 1-5% chance of "wtf thing" that might actually come close to kill me/or really kill me. I am a HDD user, so Strongbox will always create at least some small lag spike.

It is just me being way too careful. I have 3 yolo lvl 90s to use, why not use it? It is only took a few seconds to relog. I usually clear the map first then relog open strongbox/ + kill boss. So it is only 1 relog per map, not much of a hassle compared to losing 10%

This is how the exp penalty system has fail. I am just adapting myself around the system, but IMO I just feel that this isnt the play-style it should have been. Whatever, if GGG dont want to change, I change myself.

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goetzjam a écrit :

I mean the only strongboxes that really kill are ones that you refuse to move out of the way of, like ice nova and poison cloud.

that is still 5% chance you fail to blink arrow due to lag spike. My ranger is almost never within melee range of a huge pack of monster.