EXP penalty from death idea

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Raudram a écrit :

Doesn't that lead back to the point though, that the game is telling you to skip content instead of trying it?

But there should be someone in the game that can kill a bad player like me with a bad build. I skip some content because i realise i am not the best player, i don`t have the best gear, and i play a hc/atziri unviable build. :)
If i can do everything i want, imagine how boring this game will be for the people that are better than me, have better gear and have builds that are at least reasonable.

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Raudram a écrit :

The only thing the current penalty does is make higher level players skip anything that can potentially instakill them, which is many things. It goes to the point where they aren't even aware of the mechanics and how to deal with them because trying to fight and learn is simply too risky and can make them lose hours of grinding (and currency spent on those maps). So we have people stuck in a safe bubble, even buying easy maps in bulk, and I can't really blame them since that's what the game teaches.

Basic psychology is something unheard of in this realm.

I picked Jungle Valley because it's a rather odd gear-check. You can sit on low Chaos Resistance no problem up until that point, but if you aren't rather seriously geared for it Weaver will wreck you.

Torture Chamber will also probably kill you first encounter, but it's mostly a positioning thing. You can drive right in after first death and retry. There's no real gearing around it, use columns or die.

There should be things your character is afraid of. Ideally, it's tuned to the point where you begin by trying it, realizing you're out of your league, then avoid for a while... then attempt later, when you feel you've improved, but you're not really sure so you get those butterflies in your stomach, and in that moment it is clear that courage is not the absence of fear, but attempting - and succeeding - despite it.

Boss fight epicness relies on fear.

This never happens when the penalty for death makes you feel like you have multiple attempts to slowly whittle down a big bad which kills you pretty frequently. Death penalties are there to make the conquering attempt a deathless one, or at least close to it.

Just a few facts about XP in higher levels :

- In softcore (and even more in HC) the best way to get to level 100 is to skip hard content. NO player with a sane mind will try to achieve level 100 by chaining random rare corrupted T15/T16 maps. ALL level 97+ people that I've met in harbinger and discussed with, were chaining beachheads in 6-groups, and all of them were enjoying the presence of an aurabot staying close whenever possible. It means that SAFETY and MAX XP/HOUR is the best way to go. It's such a shame because I love to play maps with lots of mods, and that's why I usually stop planning my builds after 95 (I've reached the 40 challenges on harbinger at 96 and decided to stop there).

- Some people talk about getting skilled/not to die an so on, but NOTHING in the game itself leads you to improve. When you die, you have NO information at all about what monster/skill killed you. You have to figure out by talking to ppl, checking the forums, etc... Something not everyone can/will do. Newplayers don't even know how to ask the right questions because they are so clueless about what just happened. Imagine how cool it would be to have a message text like "you were killed by <monster> with 4875 amount of fire damage + 2847 of physical damage" and even with the possibility of a replay/slowmotion of the last 5 seconds ! *dreams* *dreams*

- In harbinger recently, most of the deaths I have seen in beachheads were due to bearers or volatile blood, something that can be easily avoided UNLESS there's a clusterfuck of spells on the screen, and with harbinger/beachheads we all know that the clusterfucks have been pushed to a whole new level :). So we're not speaking about playing skills here, because I have noticed that the more ppl in the party, the more dangerous it is to play because of the screen being full of visual effects and FPS drops. And I don't even want to speak about desync, lag and so on.

- As a D2 veteran, I'm not surprised about this implementation of XP, I remember the endless cow/baal runs back in the days. That was funny until level 92-95 and then boring as hell. Well, PoE is just the same. After 95, it's just DEDICATION with no extra reward : what's the point to reach level 100 when your level 95 is already just as good defense-wise and DPS-wise to clear the maps very rapidly to grind these last 5 levels ? I mean, nobody will wait the last 5 levels to trigger a build-enabling node in their passive tree ! So is it just for showoff ? I guess yes, because except for the prestige, level 100 means nothing, it doesn't mean you're so much better than a level 95 or even a level 90. It just means you've spent countless hours grinding beachheads. My point is that level 100 shouldn't be the aim that everyone is trying to reach. It's just a matter of choice. After all, the first G in GGG means Grinding...

This point has been made many times, by various people, but GGG & hardcore supporters just can't see pass this.

The current death penalty doesn't served it purpose well. People who like to live on the edge, have a mode for them alraedy, called hardcore.

The death penalty
A) Encourage zerging when leveling, making death just lol only. When I first played PoE on my first char, I kept dying to Merciless malicia (Spelling), so what I did, I went dry lake to leveled up abit, get better gears then fighted him again...not, I zerged him, I bet most people do as well when they died to him.

Death penalty is meaningless when leveling.


B) does not encourage players to better themselves, gear/skill/passive, it encouarge people to do easier contents. Even well known streamers (like Phox) are doing that to level, so you think the average players with a few hours of play time a day will attempted to do more than them?

C) Exp gain is the min certainty of a rpg players. You can log in 30 mins for some monster killing, never to get good loot, or even have negative currency then when you started (from gambling aka crafting or negative return on map mods), but at least you know you gain exp. The death penalty removed that certainty.


Imagine if you have finally 45mins to play (e.g your wife picking up the kids from soccer game), & you end the session with no good loot & have less experience bar than you begin, if thats not a source of rage quit for many, I don't know what is.

There are many solutions that prevent zerging, prevent people frm glass cannon builds while encourage people to take tiugh content while leveling, that is better than the turn of centiry expe penalty. Like time impose penalty ( a fix time of no palyability like many MP games), or level penalty (kick out after x amount of death in boss fights)

i`m not sure the xp penalty is the real issue ,
for some build is easy to farm xp and taking a minimum of risk
and for other build is just so painful , sure playing front line melee build in the game is really not friendly and some map really have so over the top crazy mods sometime , yesterday i die i think 3 time level 92 m 2 time 1 shot dead i got around 7300 hp and 21k def all rest 75 + 10 over cap , i think Vaal Detonate Dead 1 shot me , i guess is a bit hard to escape if you are melee Oo and you have more of 50 monster jumping on you , i think this game is really not design for melee , range and caster just 1 shot everything from range and have a most any risk ,
sure melee improve a lot vs before but in my opinion not the best departement of ggg

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KiadawP a écrit :

This point has been made many times, by various people, but GGG & hardcore supporters just can't see pass this.

The current death penalty doesn't served it purpose well. People who like to live on the edge, have a mode for them alraedy, called hardcore.

The death penalty
A) Encourage zerging when leveling, making death just lol only. When I first played PoE on my first char, I kept dying to Merciless malicia (Spelling), so what I did, I went dry lake to leveled up abit, get better gears then fighted him again...not, I zerged him, I bet most people do as well when they died to him.

Death penalty is meaningless when leveling.


B) does not encourage players to better themselves, gear/skill/passive, it encouarge people to do easier contents. Even well known streamers (like Phox) are doing that to level, so you think the average players with a few hours of play time a day will attempted to do more than them?

C) Exp gain is the min certainty of a rpg players. You can log in 30 mins for some monster killing, never to get good loot, or even have negative currency then when you started (from gambling aka crafting or negative return on map mods), but at least you know you gain exp. The death penalty removed that certainty.


Imagine if you have finally 45mins to play (e.g your wife picking up the kids from soccer game), & you end the session with no good loot & have less experience bar than you begin, if thats not a source of rage quit for many, I don't know what is.

There are many solutions that prevent zerging, prevent people frm glass cannon builds while encourage people to take tiugh content while leveling, that is better than the turn of centiry expe penalty. Like time impose penalty ( a fix time of no palyability like many MP games), or level penalty (kick out after x amount of death in boss fights)

Thats why all my guild quit. Thats why all my fl quit. Thats why I quit. Hitting lvl90 is joke. Then you just hit the wall. Only pain with no gain. Period.
And yes, i have lvl 95 and 93. Both are not a glass cannons but tanky guys. But still. Dying in the middle of nowhere to nothing, and then having no idea what just fucking ripped your hours of grinding is just altf4 and comeback when calmdown. Maybe.

Thies penalties doesnot stop nolife kids from hitting lvl100 in couple days. This stop all casual players from enjoying the game. Which are 99% of playerbase.

And again, for babycryers that -10% penalty is nothing compared to death in hc, just shadap and play your hc.

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h3llraiserlol a écrit :

Thies penalties doesnot stop nolife kids from hitting lvl100 in couple days. This stop all casual players from enjoying the game. Which are 99% of playerbase.

Once again, NO ! Just read again the last point in my previous post above in the same page ! Because no lifers exist (and they will always exist, and it's their choice !) doesn't mean the huge majority of players cannot enjoy the game.

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FNX_Heroes a écrit :

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h3llraiserlol a écrit :

Thies penalties doesnot stop nolife kids from hitting lvl100 in couple days. This stop all casual players from enjoying the game. Which are 99% of playerbase.

Once again, NO ! Just read again the last point in my previous post above in the same page ! Because no lifers exist (and they will always exist, and it's their choice !) doesn't mean the huge majority of players cannot enjoy the game.

No, but can we stop having "false value" added to the last 5/10 levels?

If we had a closer relation between leveling post 90 to 100 and the end game content, like in rewarding better taking chances and "farming" dangerous content for leveling instead of automatically choosing the "safe and easy" part, GGG could still entice the grind - which just got absurd due to recent pack size, you're actively pigeon holed to "speed meta and opie-op" instead of having a pleasant journey from 1 - 100 - it's just a matter of danger vs rewards.

It's great that they buffed bosses to not be instantly killed and actually every "boss" encounter shouldn't be trivialised by "1 hit, 1 kill", but instead by having up to a 60 second of close to immortality, but also with a fair chance of dying if you mess up.

It's a "buff" for us melee "scrubs" to have monster density reduced, but why not address the EXP loss by increasing the health of the existing ones, and also further adjusting the EXP gain?

If tier 15-17 maps are the top content, both in danger and in "valuable guaranteed loot", why can't they be enticing from an EXP gain point of view?

GGG still doesn't seem confident that their content will provide countless hours of fun, and that reaching with a character level 100 will just make everyone stop playing instead of rerolling, and that is sad...

Newsflash, PoE can be made enticing, even with the "cluster*^&@" that is "trading/RNGcrafting", so that everyone could experience a streamlined journey from 1 - 100...

It would just take further adjustments to danger/reward ratios "end game" wise, so all that content should feel more enticing as closer you get to 100, instead of mindlessly forcing mindnumbing easy content "farming" for EXP.

Heck, grant solely characters that reach 100 the opportunity to engage a ultimate dungeon where each each level survived adds a 1% rarity and 0.1% quantity increase, that stacks as long as you don't die/leave instance, and also reset it when certain conditions were met, like dropping a multi T1 rare, a chase unique, etc. and start such a ladder for characters that reached 100 before and one for those that reached it after the modification...

And I will still reach 100 playing single target namelocking melee, with my own build and playstyle (or leave PoE if the "fun dies"), but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't be encouraged to push myself for far more than a few dailies and maps everyday, as I would instantly embrace a harsh increase in difficulty if the incentive is there EXP wise so I could always try the "rippy" content no matter what, instead of just looking at maps and thinking that "those @*~^^& mods are viable just for opie-op meta builds, too bad I don't do that @*~^"...

And that is the humble view of your friendly casual n00b hoarder...