you nerfed the piss out of mana regen

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Foxmulder89 a écrit :

You know that increased max mana increases your regen too right?
They buffed max mana nodes hard. There are plenty mana on kill too.
Hell, theres even a 2 mana on hit, which seems weak, but it isn't..for some builds.

If the old tree gives me 3500 (for example) total mana and the new tree gives me 3500 total mana using roughly the same # of points and the difference between the two is 1/2 the regen value, the fact that there are more max mana points on the tree makes no difference. I would have to take those as well which means giving up something else (life, spell dps, etc.). The idea is to achieve similar results between the trees.

There is a big difference between increasing the base regen % vs. increasing your regen by increasing your mana. The latter is highly inefficient. That's why you increase your flat life so that your +% life is that much more significant. Same concept.

But yeah man I had no idea that more mana = more regen. In fact you lost me at "mana."

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cgexile a écrit :

The idea is to achieve similar results between the trees.

At the moment complaining about this is pointless. We do not know if mana regen itself is being recalculated (oh please I hope so but doubt it), or what the skill cost change will be (making mana regen less important)

There is mana leech, mana on kill, mana on hit besides manaregen.
"All classes have a base mana regeneration rate of 1.75% of their maximum mana per second, or equivalently 105% per minute."
Also, crafting can and will help. The game is changing but you will find a way to adapt.

I don't really care that much :P my Shadow can maintain his EK and lvl25 Arctic Armor and I might not even need Clarity anymore if I get better Manareg on gear. And to be fair Mana-Reg in the tree was always terrible compared to Manareg from Gear and with the incredible easy access to max mana getting a higher mana-reg as before is incredible easy.

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Wooser69 a écrit :

Pre patch 100% increased mana regen, wearing gear with lots of ES and mana regen to compensate. Now 180% increased but less base from clarity. Hopefully around the same mana/s.

I decoded both of your trees in PoE builder

one tree showing lolish 60 mana reg (not everyone can afford t1 mana reg rolls on gears)

the new tree shows only 80% mana reg from tree no idea where you got 180% from you seem to have another "new tree" than me

i just know i have at the moment 160% mana reg from tree which will be after patch with more pointinvestment than before only 80% mana reg

in total i got 290% mana reg which translates to 350mana/s with clarity and roughly 3k mana with EB.
In the new tree this will be 210% by long shot not enough to run my artic armour lvl 24 with increased buff effects (24%)

so either you did something wrong with your math or you linked the wrong tree but i dont believe you got 80% more mana regen from the new crappy tree with same pointinvestment.


This can only mean that AA mana drain is halved atleast this is what i bet or what i would consider fair from GGG perspective.

Oh and in b4 someone says "but u has moar max mana on tree naow"

(8% max mana node give me 6 more manareg /s while a 20% mana node give me 20 mana/s)

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Emphasy a écrit :

I don't really care that much :P my Shadow can maintain his EK and lvl25 Arctic Armor and I might not even need Clarity anymore if I get better Manareg on gear. And to be fair Mana-Reg in the tree was always terrible compared to Manareg from Gear and with the incredible easy access to max mana getting a higher mana-reg as before is incredible easy.

not just disagree with "mana reg is terrible from tree" its flat out wrong if you manage to get 240% from the old tree this is like 3 extra pieces of gear with t1/t2 mana reg rolls.

would love to see any maths /proof behind that talk lvl 25 AA with inc buff effect with no calirity you must either be trolling or inb4 t1 mana reg rolls on every piece of gear possible.


Edit: corrected some math

Overall it seems to me that mana problems should get better after this. They have increased the amount of mana % passives available by a lot. Mana % is better than regeneration % (for the same values) in all cases. It also makes gear with mana affixes on it scale better.

Couple this with over all lower costs and more accessible mana cost reduction nodes. And what's this about there being so much less regeneration? I just tried to see how much there is and there is 275% mana regen that should be easy enough to access to any elemental caster in a fairly typical build.

If we compare the totals of mana % and mana regen % we get:
Old: 256% mana, 420% mana reg (mana + mana reg = 676%)
New: 348% mana(!), 335% mana reg (mana + mana reg = 683%)

I haven't even mentioned EB yet and you should all know how much easier it is to get ES% now... If anything it seems mana is so abundant that I'm wondering what exactly they will do to make people want to make use of it all.

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Zoroch a écrit :

Mana % is better than regeneration %


If we compare the totals of mana % and mana regen % we get:
Old: 256% mana, 420% mana reg (mana + mana reg = 676%)
New: 348% mana(!), 335% mana reg (mana + mana reg = 683%)

Ehhhh Wrong

mana reg is a ton times better and i really can prove it as i have 3 AA characters all using AA /EB than flat mana% once when reached a healthy mana pool form gears/es and EB there is simply no need for max mana% its alrdy enough while mana reg% nodes scales more than double as good for the manareg/s within a mana pool of 3-3,5k.

All in all i can quote myself because i knew that was coming.

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zzang a écrit :

Oh and in b4 someone says "but u has moar max mana on tree naow"

(8% max mana node give me 6 more manareg /s while a 20% mana node give me 20 mana/s)

^ this is at 3k base mana


oh and btw you dont seriously asume that anyone will take every single mana node/reg spread on the tree right? oh wait you did!

Neither is good without the other.

https://www.poebuilder.com/builds/Snork-ebek

Just check this build out someone made with EK. He has enough Manareg to supply a lvl25 Arctic Armor and although he has two impressive ES-pieces he has no ES on Boots and Gloves and a low amount on the helmet. Same amount of ES is achieveable pretty easy, he also has not much mana-rolls on his gear and only average mana-reg rolls and although his rings are really good they are far from perfect and he already hits about 230 Mana-Reg per Second. And although this is not enough to run around with Arctic Armor permanently (the drain is about 280, he has a fairly simple solution called Lightning-Warp).

He also only skilled 40% increased Regeneration from the tree. He could easily get a few more if he invests into the Witch start unfortunatly those nodes in the witch-start are broken and not recognized by PoE-Builder right now, but this would be 60% increased Mana-Reg pushing him propably over 300 Mana-Reg per Second (each 20% give him about 19 Mana-Reg per second and there is more flat mana and ES on this way too).

If you work with PoE-Builder you should check your stats. Most Mana-Reg nodes don't really work. Exspecially the ones near Shadow and Witch seem to be broken not giving their increaes.

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zzang a écrit :

mana reg is a ton times better and i really can prove it as i have 3 AA characters all using AA /EB than flat mana% once when reached a healthy mana pool form gears/es and EB there is simply no need for max mana%

You having "no need" for max mana% proves nothing. It is fact that base mana regeneration is 1.75% of your total max mana pool per second: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Mana.

This means that 1% mana increase without any other changes give the exact same increase in mana regen as 1% of increased mana regen. the difference is that mana% also gives you a larger mana pool to use. Mana% also scales flat mana on gear which the regen does not.

What it does do is that it increases the flat extra mana regeneration from sources like clarity.

Thus the best way to increase your regen is to take a healthy mix of both. If you have as a goal to reach really high regen you need to make mana% a priority in that mix. Continually stacking only regeneration is inefficient.

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Zoroch a écrit :

"

zzang a écrit :

mana reg is a ton times better and i really can prove it as i have 3 AA characters all using AA /EB than flat mana% once when reached a healthy mana pool form gears/es and EB there is simply no need for max mana%

You having "no need" for max mana% proves nothing. It is fact that base mana regeneration is 1.75% of your total max mana pool per second: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Mana.

This means that 1% mana increase without any other changes give the exact same increase in mana regen as 1% of increased mana regen. the difference is that mana% also gives you a larger mana pool to use. Mana% also scales flat mana on gear which the regen does not.

What it does do is that it increases the flat extra mana regeneration from sources like clarity.

Thus the best way to increase your regen is to take a healthy mix of both. If you have as a goal to reach really high regen you need to make mana% a priority in that mix. Continually stacking only regeneration is inefficient.

yes... 32% max mana with eldritch battery is more than enough as i said no need to take more mana nodes as they just scale worse going form a 3k base mana than a mana reg node% but thats exactly what i wrote in my post(s) before.

why people answering and quoting me without even reading or in worse case ignoring my posts/points i dont get it?

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Emphasy a écrit :

Neither is good without the other.

https://www.poebuilder.com/builds/Snork-ebek

Just check this build out someone made with EK. He has enough Manareg to supply a lvl25 Arctic Armor [...] he already hits about 230 Mana-Reg per Second.

Mana drain of artic armour lvl 25 = 278.2 multiplieder by additional 24% increased buff effect = 278.2 * 1.24 = 344.96 mana reg required to run AA seriously

using AA on this high lvl but only having 250 mana reg is just big times fail no matter if you use lightning wrap or not (which sounds to be a awful gameplay).