I gambled and lost. My views on PoE and its randomness

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sidtherat a écrit :

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

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ShaeG a écrit :

I cannot think if a single excuse why at leastone map should not drop of equal or higher lvl each 1-2 map runs... having low lvl map or even no map drop in lvl 76-78 map is just bullshit

Because people would just run white maps.

and. how. is. that. a. bad. thing?!

solution? quality also provides exp bonus. noone ever would run white maps after this change

Bad thing because one currency sink would be lost.

Exp bonus: I'm all for it but it would not solve this problem. Running white maps is way faster and safer than running rare ones with xp bonus. Why would you risk anything, esp. in HC modes.

nice post, completely agree with the OP

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

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ShaeG a écrit :

I cannot think if a single excuse why at leastone map should not drop of equal or higher lvl each 1-2 map runs... having low lvl map or even no map drop in lvl 76-78 map is just bullshit

Because people would just run white maps.

Doesn't that imply that the iiq given to each mod isnt worth the hassle? I kind of wish that the iiq merits on the map mods could stand on their own but sadly they dont.

I've commented on this many times, but I'll add this once more. I've played both sets of leagues, and gotten an 8 in both (7 in this current one at the moment as some stuff is on loan). At least 7 characters to 60+ in both, and at least one to 85+ in both.


In anarchy, I played maps, occasionally got drops, enjoyed the hell out of everything. Several good unique drops, several exalt orb drops (about 5). This league, 10 characters 65+ not one exalt orb drop, not one top tier unique drop. I ran with 90/350 for most of the league. Yes, I was able to obtain currency, by doing the 2 chaos recipe for like 20 out of 24 hours on the weekends.

The simple fact is, Anarchy, when things dropped for me, the game was much more enjoyable. After this set of leagues I am feeling pretty burnt out and time invested feels wasted. I think if anyone were to look at the amount of time I invested in these leagues and say "that is reasonable," then they would be crazier than I am.

My suggestion, add more things to leagues like Anarchy Exiles (which had GOOD drops vs now) and Inner Treasure monsters. Let stuff drop a little bit more in leagues if the idea is protect the parent leagues.

Obtaining items in this game is possible, regardless of circumstances. The difference is in whether the journey is through heaven, or hell.

I don't know how you make it more "fair," I really don't, but when two players put in the same number of hours with the same numbers, and one gets 11 Bringer of Rain drops, and one gets zero, something feels seriously wrong to the person that got zero, and the person with eleven feels great. The same applies to fusings. The person who spends 5,000 is not receiving the kind of enjoyment as the person who gets 3 six links in under 100.


I understand that random is a huge part of this game, but there should be some sort of system of checks and balances in place. It shouldn't be possible for one person to get the stick in the eye repeatedly, because it breaks people's spirits, and pushes them from the game.

My thoughts, for what they are worth.

maps already are not effective currency sinks. for it to work people would have to solo them. but with 6man parties this is barely effective. also with current rng running blue maps works just as well. and the trully difficult rolls are frequently less iiq effective than much easier ones.

also due to map difficulty being mostly about boss diff if you skip the boss you can freely accept affixes that would make boss dangerous without any penalty.

also talk about currency sink once again shows that poe is about economy and only economy

havent seen 'gameplay' mentioned here for a long time..

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Sinnesteuer a écrit :

When discussing maps, what makes one any "harder" than another, in an objective sense, that is applicable to all builds?

See, some maps/bosses/mods are total cheese for some builds, and nightmares for others. One group perceives a map to be faceroll easy, the other won't even touch it.

Just pointing out some inherent issues related to the suggestion to "make hard maps more rewarding". I'm pretty sure they already do, as higher level maps do net more exp.

True, but amplifying all mods do increase the overall hardness of the content, logically.

So, this is pointless, comparing difficulty to different builds, isn't it?

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Sa_Re a écrit :

Bad thing because one currency sink would be lost.

Exp bonus: I'm all for it but it would not solve this problem. Running white maps is way faster and safer than running rare ones with xp bonus. Why would you risk anything, esp. in HC modes.

Making a leveling process a currency sink is the terrible idea in the first place.

You would still waste currency on rolling the maps.

Replace luck/currency involvement in leveling process and make a new one.


Your white map argument is invalid, because now we have to play lower level maps, which are much easier than the higher content we can handle.

If someone wants to play white maps which give substantially less experience, let him.

@Tinko -

Yes, it is kind of "pointless" to determine, objectively, what the definition of "difficult" should be.

That certain map mods provide for more %Q than others would tend to suggest that GGG has already determined that some mods are intended to be "more difficult" than others.

IMO, the moment that a particular map/boss/mod set is discovered to provide the "best" loot gains per unit of time is the moment that the cookie-cutter build designed to faceroll that specific content becomes overplayed by the bulk of the population. Gamers, as a generally lazy-ass group of people, will always gravitate to whatever is going to reap the most reward for the least investment.

@Reboticon -

I dont see how making leveling a money sink is a bad idea. the problem with optional sinks is that literally no one uses them if they aren't attractive .

that is why crafting ,an optional money sink, is terrible because it is both optional and very very unattractive.


If it weren't for maps needing currency to run them we would have nothing but crafting to spend orbs on. and crafting in this game is garbage as it is in most rng based games .

just take a look at the exalted orbs in standard vs 4 month leagues. exalted orbs are terrible for rolling maps that, apart from crafting high end stuff that only 1% can buy ,they are virtually unusable.

where as the chaos orb is used so liberally that people can hardly get enough of them.

in fact if you notice nearly every orb that sucks for mapping apart from the fusing orb tends to lose value over very long periods of time .


blessed orbs?
divines?
exa?
eternal?
regal?


all of them are worth far less than their rarity suggests save for when a new batch of legacy items are announced .

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Sinnesteuer a écrit :

@Tinko -

Yes, it is kind of "pointless" to determine, objectively, what the definition of "difficult" should be.

That certain map mods provide for more %Q than others would tend to suggest that GGG has already determined that some mods are intended to be "more difficult" than others.

IMO, the moment that a particular map/boss/mod set is discovered to provide the "best" loot gains per unit of time is the moment that the cookie-cutter build designed to faceroll that specific content becomes overplayed by the bulk of the population. Gamers, as a generally lazy-ass group of people, will always gravitate to whatever is going to reap the most reward for the least investment.

Completely agreed, hence the Shipyard 24/7 arguments.

Still, it can all be fixed.
There are certain bosses that are hilariously weak, for all builds, even with couple of nasty map mods.

That, on which we agree upon, to farm the easiest content/bosses, is being done now with this system too.

And when players encounter a boss which is a pain in the ass for them, they skip it without hesitation, and I'm all for it, because there is no risk-reward here, zero, none.

Players (generally) choose Shipyard over Shrine, Precint over Academy/Crematorium, Courtyard over Palace, etc.

So the boss problem is off too, because it's possible to make every single boss to be at least some kind of a threat for every build (multiple skills, spawns, etc.).


Before PoE, I was absolutely horrified by the CoD Modern Warfare, the game is fine for its genre, but the helicopter when you line up 7 kills... what the fuck really?
A machine that randomly goes around and collects kills for you (if it kills)?
The helicopter in there was the #1 of the worst things in gaming history ever, sadly, it's #2 since I've experienced the luck based leveling process in PoE.

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sidtherat a écrit :

maps already are not effective currency sinks.

I have spent (and I'm really just guessing, here) easily 50 exalts worth of chaos at least rolling maps in this league. I've spent a significant amount of chaos/fuses trading for chisels.

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sidtherat a écrit :

...for it to work people would have to solo them. but with 6man parties this is barely effective.

I solo far more than I party.

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sidtherat a écrit :

also with current rng running blue maps works just as well.

If your sample size doesn't reach the double digits, then sure, why not!

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sidtherat a écrit :

and the trully difficult rolls are frequently less iiq effective than much easier ones.

In most cases, the IIQ reflects the difficulty imparted. This can change depending on your build... I don't think there are any map mods that give the same level of headache for all builds across the spectrum. I'm not even sure that this is possible, unless you just add really generic things like all enemies do 300% more damage.

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sidtherat a écrit :

also due to map difficulty being mostly about boss diff if you skip the boss you can freely accept affixes that would make boss dangerous without any penalty.

Reflect mods, regen mods, chaos/sec, enfeeble, temp chains, vulnerability just off the top of my head can make the entire map dangerous, depending on what you're running.

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sidtherat a écrit :

also talk about currency sink once again shows that poe is about economy and only economy

havent seen 'gameplay' mentioned here for a long time..

As someone who rarely dabbles in the economy save to swap orbs for rolling maps, I'd say this is false. If I wasn't blowing all my orbs on maps, I would be blowing them on gear.