PoE is punishing, not difficult. Video to clarify the difference.

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deteego a écrit :

My point is that a lot of people argue that PoE is niche in its design and "hardcoreness", my argument is that in reality, thats further than the truth.

More accurately, PoE's nicheness is a facade, mainly due to the fact of it basically copying the formula, back to front, of the most non niche genre+game, you can think of. The only reason that people call PoE niche is because GGG calls it hardcore

So what's the difference between POE and D3 as they are both coming off the same model.

edit: after watching some tuts for DOTA, it's WC3 w/o all the building, just stop. It's a different genre but it's not some revolutionary thing, you enjoy it, sweet. But the shit from a glance looks like LoL with different colors. Only difference from SC/WC is rather than managing multiple builds and what not, you focus on one character.

Oh by the way aeon of strife is a SC1 map by the way.

And there was a billion dotas and other aos like maps, it wasn't until dota allstars that had euls/guinsoo and ice frog working on it that it became godly popular.

Guinsoo went to make LoL and icefrog made dota 2 with valve and eul hopped at dota 2 with valve too after awhile.

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Moosifer a écrit :

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deteego a écrit :

My point is that a lot of people argue that PoE is niche in its design and "hardcoreness", my argument is that in reality, thats further than the truth.

More accurately, PoE's nicheness is a facade, mainly due to the fact of it basically copying the formula, back to front, of the most non niche genre+game, you can think of. The only reason that people call PoE niche is because GGG calls it hardcore

So what's the difference between POE and D3 as they are both coming off the same model.

Well actually, from a purely design perspective, D3 is much more different to D2 compared to PoE. PoE is basically D2 with some mechanics that are improved (such as stats/potions + skill system). In its core design however, its exact same as D2.

D3's core design is so radically different from D2 its not funny, the game is designed (intentionally) for casuals, and Blizzard indirectly admitted this many times.

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deteego a écrit :

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Fruz a écrit :

League of Legends is the opposite of a niche game, which means that one cannot say that a MoBA is a niche game anymore, and it has been like this for a long time already.

Yes I can, because if an entire genre only has one game that appeals to the mass market, by definition its the most niche genre out there when you compare it with everything else. Practically every single aRPG that isn't knox has been designed to hit mass market, the most popular aRPG (D2) was designed to hit mass market. PoE's design is unintentionally meant to hit mass market, the fact that the devs want it do otherwise is irrelevant

This is pretty interesting.

Should 'niche' be applied to the genre or to the game? Take FPS games, for example, we got CoD which is a mainstream FPS game, and we got ARMA which is very niche. The saving throw here is ARMA belongs to the subgenre 'military simulator' and CoD is 'military-themed arcade FPS'.

On the other hand we got elder scrolls series, which are a 'first person action rpg', and have seen a gradual transition from niche to lees niche, and finally to mainstream with Skyrim, while staying within the genre.

So, the point is, we can rarely tag a whole genre as niche or mainstream, it can be done with a subgenre at most. MOBA is, by itself, a fairly fresh genre with relatively few games so it's was easily tagged as 'niche' until the advent of LoL. So we have an easier game for the masses like LoL (or Smite) and a more difficult versions of the game with more skilled players (and a very rabid community) like HoN.

Other than the whole MOBA name is pretty general, as games like Bloodline Champions which aren't anything like DoTA also fit it.

Well MOBA is a bastard term that the creators of LoL came up with, but its the only one that a lot of people are familiar with. I should have probably used AoS instead of MOBA, which although technically a sc1 mod and not a game, is pretty much the definition of the genre of the games that follow it (DotA, HoN, LoL, AoS)

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Cronk a écrit :

Don't worry about it dude, moosifer always end his 'debates' with some variation of "I have no idea what you're talking about" and furz always uses misinterpretation and deliberate misunderstanding to drag a 'debate' ten pages further than it needs to go.

Would not happen you some people would know how to make points without deforming what people say and take things out of their context for the sake of trying to be right.

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raics a écrit :

Should 'niche' be applied to the genre or to the game? Take FPS games, for example, we got CoD which is a mainstream FPS game, and we got ARMA which is very niche. The saving throw here is ARMA belongs to the subgenre 'military simulator' and CoD is 'military-themed arcade FPS'.

Actually, "genre' is just used to categorize games for more convenience.

You can't say that a group of game aims at a specific ( niche ) audience if one of them doesn't basically, it's as simple as that.
But I think that you understands that quite well considering your last post.

You can easily say that a genre is niche if almost every title in that genre happens to be niche. Sure you can more accurately say that this genre is more niche than any other genre out there, but you are honestly are just ignoring semantics at this point and just ignoring the main point that was being made