"
Nobody who disagrees with my initial post has answered the questions posed there yet. And it's not a mystery why. The question is not ill posed, or disingenuous. It's a question of whether loot is a major influencing factor.
It is not answerable, because loot is a major influencing factor, and zoom produces the most loot.
All arpgs have 2 pillars: combat, loot. Combat must be engaging, loot must be interesting. This is the success. If one of them is poorly done/designed/balanced, game becomes mediocre or just bad. At least for some players. Most POE1 longterm players are those who don't care at all about combat. It just doesn't exist there. But POE2 was designed to attract those who do care. And it succeeded, partially, bringing ~50% more people from that camp as we see from open statistic. Big question is - will they stay, because as the game slides into POE1 more and more there remain less and less reasons for them to stay.
|
Posté parAzimuthus#1135le 18 nov. 2025 à 19:55:44
|
"
That's a fair idea, that the majority of the player base should decide. This is why in principle, I think it would be a good idea for GGG to put a question/poll system in the game, where they can get the opinion of the players without them needing to leave the game and come onto the forums. After that, it will be up to GGG to interpret and decide what's best from there, with that information.
i'd love to see data on this because i'm truly perplexed every time i tune into a PoE2 podcast. these people who represent communities seem to be simultaneously asking for the game to be: visually stunning, run at 144fps at all times, have 100 monsters on screen (but only for a second because they want to one shot every white monster), be well balanced, be harder/much harder but also brain off.
"
Everyone has their preference, and there's no accounting for taste. But without trying to sound too presumptuous, I worry that many players might be confusing their immediate experience of being competitive in the current meta, with what the game could be like if the meta was different. This is all, on a spectrum of sorts: methodical to zoom
i think the only solution for a community this split (or seemingly split) is to make the end-endgame truly sandboxy with a lot of ways to customize it, i bet many peoples preferences will change when they see what else is possible.
"
Unfortunately too, the "fast versus slow" concept tends to conflate the movement and skill speed, with the length of the fights.
Perhaps the best way to convey the 'vision', is to ask: which in PoE2 right now, is a more interesting encounter, the regular mobs, or the bosses? And if the answer is the bosses, the follow up question is "what if the rest of the game were that sort of encounter?" Not so much boss fights, but enemies that you didn't (always) steam-roll, which lasted a bit of time, where the fights were "slower" (I might prefer the term engaging, or interesting)
you're right on the money here and wouldn't you know it, this content already exists in the game, right now, in the form of the ascension trials, unfortunately the feedback seems to be people aren't particularly fond of the rng elements, so keeping this in mind, i hope the devs give us a more hand-on ability to scale the endgame in cool and interesting ways in the future.
|
|
|
The problem lies in how the looting system is structured, not how the players behave per se, because the former will always influence the latter.
Poe2 was supposed to innovate upon the antiquated IIQ and IIR based system of its predecessor, it is instead slowly turning into its copy.
When the only way to guarantee loot is to pull the RNG lever as often as possible, then the 'correct' way to play the game is to build for speed and screen clear.
Then again, if you base loot on actual difficulty, you will be accused of gate keeping.
I think what they were trying to do initially with every map/encounter having 1 attempt was a decent compromise, if only there were actual ways to build towards defences.
To sum up I'd say that the developer is - through their design decisions - giving people who wish to play optimally not choice in this matter.
|
Posté pararandan#3174le 18 nov. 2025 à 21:36:43
|
"
Big question is - will they stay, because as the game slides into POE1 more and more there remain less and less reasons for them to stay.
this.
i'm hoping and praying it doesn't come to that! must be possible to make most people happy right? :D
|
|
"
To sum up I'd say that the developer is - through their design decisions - giving people who wish to play optimally not choice in this matter.
it is true that the game is very one dimensional currently, but remember fragment farming back in 0.1.x? running citadel maps with 1200+% wdc to quadruple profits made the maps very difficult and (imo) also fun, the problem was the setup process.
Dernière édition par allanballan6ix9ine#1114, le 18 nov. 2025 à 21:58:49
|
|
|
bump
|
Posté parVyend#2601le 19 nov. 2025 à 00:31:13
|
"
"
"
If you don't want builds like that but want them all to be slow then you care more about trade and forcing players to play the way you want than you do about the overall fun of the player base.
I'd like to go through and answer more of your points specifically, but I'd like to put emphasis on one question first, which might elucidate some things. If there's something specific you want me to address, point it out.
If you could play Lightning Arrow Deadeye just as it is, but in order to ascend you must take the node "-90% item quantity" would you play it?
This is such an obviously loaded question but I will play the game...
To begin let me first explain that I, and I think this is a common thing in the game, have two types of characters which are most simply broken down into two categories. First is the league starter or the farmer if you will. Then second being the fun build. The thing you need that currency to make work weather it be a specific unique that is needed or specific thresholds of gear are needed to make it work.
So when I last played LA (.1) it was my league starter before I even knew that it was the go to "zoom" build. I had a blast playing it but there were all these new skills to try. So I farmed some currency on the LA character and helped fund some builds that I thought would be really cool and fun.
On the second character, I would absolutely take that node of "-90% item quantity". For the first I would not.
So to give you a direct answer since LA is the build in question. If that was the "fun" build in my scenario I would absolutely take that node. Because I have fun feeling strong. I have fun when a build comes online and its just a breeze in old tiers that use to be harder. I have fun being able to push higher and "complete" the game. (Arbiter of Ash is what I am considering a soft complete the game)
Now I have seen your responses on multiple threads now about this same topic and from my understanding your interpretation of zoom has nothing to do with movement speed, attack speed, or action speed but simply damage. Correct me if I am wrong here obviously but I think that is what you have been stating.
On that topic and I can respond in the other threads you have made for a more direct point by point response as well, but your issue is LA does too much damage. Now, I may have a very off take here so bare with me but I think most people when they hear zoom they are thinking about movement speed and action speed aka being able to zoom through the maps. If I one hit everything in the game but walk like a turtle I don't think most would consider that zoom so with this in mind I think you should rename your threads and argument from zoom to dps.
Back to topic at hand... If you think LA does too much damage, how do you feel about blood hunt? Hammer of the Gods? Snipe? Molten Shield? Cast on crit, ailment, etc mass comets?
Each of those hit harder than LA does. To be clear, 1 for 1. Not LA with 20 attacks per second. Legit 1 for 1. So then I must ask for clarity in your other thread because you clearly stated multiple times that the "zoom" you are against had nothing to do with movement speed, attack speed, or action speed.
All the rest of this aside. If I am playing a build I find super fun for any number of reasons, yes I would take your completely ridiculous node if that was the only way I could play that specific build.
Quoted from the other thread. Interesting, in this one you changed your stance that it IS about the trade/loot and upped it from -90% to -95% while also adding a +1000% for the other side.
|
|
|
The game allows zooming but it's not balanced aroud it, so it's OK as long as it stays that way imo. Personally I don't play one-click streamer builds and I had quite a lot of fun so far.
Dernière édition par Sakanabi#6664, le 19 nov. 2025 à 02:20:25
|
Posté parSakanabi#6664le 19 nov. 2025 à 02:20:01
|
"
Nobody who disagrees with my initial post has answered the questions posed there yet. And it's not a mystery why. The question is not ill posed, or disingenuous. It's a question of whether loot is a major influencing factor.
It is not answerable, because loot is a major influencing factor, and zoom produces the most loot.
Questions:
"
If you could play an incredibly fast one-click zoom build that cleared monsters from a screen away, but in order to play this build you had to take the ascendancy node "-95% item quantity" would you play it?
Conversely, if there was a build which cleared 25% as fast, but had access to the ascendancy node "+1000% item quantity" would you play it?
I wouldn't play a game with such shitty balancing of stuff.
Work on your examples, so it's more relatable.
|
Posté parEvergrey#7535le 19 nov. 2025 à 04:32:08
|
|
I was saying it already at 0.1, that we seriously need some kind of juicing mechanic to choose whether we get 100 easy monsters on screen, or 10 hard ones. Obviously you could do something in between too.
Then just balance the loot so in the end both gets you same amount of stuff, to allow people to choose their playstyle. Also nerf AOE skills and buff single target (or, "less aoe") skills to get some sort of balance for different flavors of gameplay.
This way you can zoom 30 maps per hour, or do 5 slower ones, whichever your build is good at.
|
|
