Zoom is not fun. It's loot FOMO

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WhisperSlade#0532 a écrit :

A potential solution: the end-game needs to be multi-faceted and supply content that different play styles excel at. Some content zoomers will be best suited, and other content where only extremely defensive and smart tactical combat will excel. Then at least the game will be more balanced in terms of loot acquisition, and the player only has to choose between whether they want to apply thinking and skill to the combat, or zoom instead.

I agree with you on this completely and i have hope that this might be what GGG will focus on in the futur. So the choice of playstyle will matter less. Pretty sure some content in the end game will be added that require high defense or perfect positioning over DPS.

But having played a lot of other games i believe that the prefered gameplay is usualy the one making you powerfull or rich. For a lot of reason more related to human nature imho. This is why i think they will always focus more on that because it is what will please the majority.

Finding a balance is extremely hard in game offering less choice than this one. I'm not sure a real balance will ever be achievable here. No matter how hard they try, people will always find a META and use it as a way to get more powerfull or more rich.

I personaly gave up on that already before playing poe2 and accepted my fun was different than the majority.
I play in my corner and get my own fun =)

It's still very early for the game and i still think a lot will change in the future. People rushing META will never change tough.

[Removed by Support]

Saying something unrelated but true, to make your own point seem valid.

Unfortunately again not done subtle, but quite obvious instead.

"Zoom gives loot, so you do it just for the loot"

Nah. Zoom is fun and rewarding at the same time.

We are actually having fun.

The main reason "zoom" builds are popular is because there is a time limit for the Leagues. With the current League schedule there is only about 2 months between POE1 & 2 Leagues. So you have to rush through if you want to play both Leagues.

Something to keep in mind is that this is an ARPG and is intended to be fast paced "smash & grab".

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BlastYa#4875 a écrit :

I agree with you on this completely and i have hope that this might be what GGG will focus on in the futur. So the choice of playstyle will matter less. Pretty sure some content in the end game will be added that require high defense or perfect positioning over DPS.

This would be a solution I would probably be content with, and would be the most reasonable compromise for players who want to play a different sort of game. High hopes for 0.4 endgame update! =)

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BlastYa#4875 a écrit :

But having played a lot of other games i believe that the prefered gameplay is usualy the one making you powerfull or rich. For a lot of reason more related to human nature imho. This is why i think they will always focus more on that because it is what will please the majority.

Agree. This was my basic point. It's more about psychology and getting rich (FOMO). As for getting powerful, yes that too. But power is always a 'relativistic game'. Where you feel powerful only in relation to the monsters feeling weak in comparison. The player becoming too powerful, means that the monsters are barely a threat. I don't in principle, have an issue with this as an eventual late-stage progression. I only have an issue with it being "the norm" in how we measure relative player power. I would much rather the combat be something to consider, rather than something so trivially easy, the progression is a matter of how to trivialize it more efficiently.

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BlastYa#4875 a écrit :

Finding a balance is extremely hard in game offering less choice than this one. I'm not sure a real balance will ever be achievable here. No matter how hard they try, people will always find a META and use it as a way to get more powerfull or more rich.

True. Though I'm not looking for anything resembling a perfect balance, but to at least lower the standard ceiling to a point where we do not have 10 more years of the same one-dimensional PoE1 style gameplay which I, and many others, would not look forward to.

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BlastYa#4875 a écrit :

I personaly gave up on that already before playing poe2 and accepted my fun was different than the majority.
I play in my corner and get my own fun =)

It's still very early for the game and i still think a lot will change in the future. People rushing META will never change tough.

You are right, people will always rush/emulate the meta, and that will never change; that is not within the developer's control. But what can change, are what metas the players are able to achieve through balancing the game (PvE). To go back to the example in my initial post: I would not like the meta to be where players can generate unlimited divine orbs. That, the developers can control.

Cheers =)
<3

Do you guys know one person, who can say:

"Meh, I do not like flicker strike, it clears way too fast for me"

Or someone who would say:

"I love my warrior today I spend an hour in a map clearing everything super slow"

Do such people even exist?

Also, hoping that GGG will release content that will require position and tanking?

10+ years in poe history say that this never happens.

Hoping that something will change in the future is okay.

But the chances are non existent.

"

Nah. Zoom is fun and rewarding at the same time.

Don't know where is fun in that. Once I reach zoom level in such games (any arpg), I just stop playing, because there is nothing else for me to do, I'm a god already and being a god is boring.

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Azimuthus#1135 a écrit :

"

Nah. Zoom is fun and rewarding at the same time.

Don't know where is fun in that. Once I reach zoom level in such games (any arpg), I just stop playing, because there is nothing else for me to do, I'm a god already and being a god is boring.

You know, I will be honest.

I think you do not get it because you never has.
And I will explain why I think that way.

We do not reach zoom level.

Your build is what zooms, and it zooms from very early.

You zoom zoom white maps. Upgrade, zoom zoom yellow. Upgrade, zoom zoom red. Star juicing.

It is not like we walk into red and start clearing them for half hour per map, and then we reach some point where we clear them for few minutes.

This play style is from T1 to T16.
Running, killing and looting pretty much all the time.

And you feel like God in T1, and then like God in T16.

And it is fun in T1 and fun in T16.

All Leagues are FOMO by design.

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Skellymancer#5263 a écrit :

Do you guys know one person, who can say:

"Meh, I do not like flicker strike, it clears way too fast for me"

Or someone who would say:

"I love my warrior today I spend an hour in a map clearing everything super slow"

Do such people even exist?

Also, hoping that GGG will release content that will require position and tanking?

Nobody ever espouses those things quite that way, because they are disingenuous framings of the discussion. Nobody wants to feel weak and slow, they want engaging and fun combat.

If you need to reinterpret what people are saying as some fabricated straw man version of their thoughts, then you should consider why you are not able or willing to engage with their ideas in good faith.

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Skellymancer#5263 a écrit :

10+ years in poe history say that this never happens.

It's not a mystery, it's power creep and FOMO. Players will generally play the most effective builds available, whether it's the most fun or not. If those builds were not available, then they would not play them. It's EA, so now is the time to talk about what is best for the game.

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Skellymancer#5263 a écrit :

Hoping that something will change in the future is okay.
But the chances are non existent.

If that's true, then you don't have to worry about it, go relax.
I disagree, so I will keep talking about it with the community.
Cheers.

hi ! i'd like to weigh in on this topic but i'm a bit confused by the term zoom. are you guys talking about fast action and movement speed gameplay or broken builds that trivialize the entire game with minimal investment?

i want "zoom" to be in the game, but players need to (imo) earn the ability to trivialize content by being good at the game, a lvl 1 souls run is a great example of this.