Balance is NOT possible - PROVE ME WRONG

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Warrax#2850 a écrit :

Reading threads like this make me realize why dev only read the problem, not the solutions (offered by players), great discussion and all but too many don't think outside the box and too many are biased.

Couldn't agree more. People come up with the worst possible solutions imaginable. There are active threads of people suggesting a MS and DPS cap... IN PATH OF EXILE 🤣 I couldn't think of anything more antithetical to GGG's design philosophies. To me that is like people going onto a WOW forum and suggesting the game be turned into a single player RPG, just absolutely wild stuff.

balance is very possible (but ggg decisevely do not improve it, they want to check all range of power of players to decide which is more popular among players. Or they just bad at balancing.) - prove me wrong.

The game could be balanced but it will never be balanced.

This game is slot machine and combat is the crank. Without imbalances, slot machines are boring. If a slot machine had a 50% chance to win and the payout was equal to the cost, i.e. balanced, the expected value would be 0. You would win as much as you lose. If pulling the crank isn't fun, there would be few reasons to play. Furthermore, most players won't play a fair slot machine for very long. The exact goal of a slot machine is to keep players playing. Balance works in opposition to that goal.

This game (as it is currently) would die if you made it balanced. Right now there are only two types of challenges: Kill a lot of mobs, kill one mob. The action players can take are complex, but how players interact with content is not. Consider if you could pick your affixes exactly up to tier 2 (not even best in slot). With perfect T2 gear I could do all the current content in the game. I suspect most players could. Without the gear/currency grind, what would we do at endgame?

Delirium, Expedition and Breach have players do the exact same thing as normal maps. Delirium is normal maps with a different color. Expedition is normal maps with setup. Breach is normal maps with a timer. Ritual at least requires your defenses be strong. The only content that makes player interact with the game differently than normal maps are the 4 pinnacle bosses and ritual.

The complexity and use of RNG hides the shallowness of content. IMO the game could be balanced if GGG focused more on content with diverse challenges instead of building a slot machine. However they seem more interested in building a combat slot machine.

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Innuendos#5095 a écrit :

not as naive as thinking this game has thousands of builds.

it doesnt. 56% of the playerbase is 1 of three ascendency, and the vast majority of those, are like, 1-2 builds each.... that info isnt hard to find my dude.

That's not because more builds don't exist. It's because the game is incredibly complex and most people don't want to learn how to make their own builds, so they flock to whatever person is loudest about how amazingly OP their build is.

There are hundreds of build options in PoE1, but you still see 50+% of the playerbase playing a select few, for exactly the same reasons. But according to everyone who talks about both games, PoE1 allegedly has so much build potential. Which is it, when both have the same class disposition problem?

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Polantaris#1920 a écrit :

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Innuendos#5095 a écrit :

not as naive as thinking this game has thousands of builds.

it doesnt. 56% of the playerbase is 1 of three ascendency, and the vast majority of those, are like, 1-2 builds each.... that info isnt hard to find my dude.

That's not because more builds don't exist. It's because the game is incredibly complex and most people don't want to learn how to make their own builds, so they flock to whatever person is loudest about how amazingly OP their build is.

There are hundreds of build options in PoE1, but you still see 50+% of the playerbase playing a select few, for exactly the same reasons. But according to everyone who talks about both games, PoE1 allegedly has so much build potential. Which is it, when both have the same class disposition problem?

No its a game design flaw... why put in all that effort for something that might not even work? The game FAILS TO DRAW PEOPLE IN AND EXPERIMENT!!! WHICH IS WHY PEOPLE DEFAULT TO SAME OLD META BUILD, Game is failing to draw people in after trying out certain skills parts of tree, some skills are shit untill you throw on a tier 5 support gem, this is biggest problem rn, alot of earlier abilities would be too op right off the bat if they had access to final support gem so thats why theres 5 tiers of support gems, yet you can do anything with these skills in later levels of gameplay, giving me alot more to do then was previously available, something in the game NEEDS TO DRAW ME BACK TO THOSE SKILLS, TO MORE OPTION/VARIETY, poor game design choices...

Just let every build be OP. It's just that simple. It's an ARPG. Plus none of you guys even play co-op.

If you want something harder then play HCSSF and ask the devs to buff every monster in the game for you.

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Jobama#9902 a écrit :

No its a game design flaw... why put in all that effort for something that might not even work? The game FAILS TO DRAW PEOPLE IN AND EXPERIMENT!!!

Sorry, but it's not and it doesn't. Their balancing can use work, sure, but it's not a design flaw that some skills are better than others, that's just the name of the game.

I have never followed a build guide in my entire life of playing either PoE game. I just do whatever I want, I learned how the game works over time, adjust to new knowledge, and make better builds next time. I use skills that people often call useless. I do combo builds in PoE2 despite people saying those are unworkable.

Build variety is there, you just need to put in the work for it. Most people don't want to, so they follow a guide, and that skews the data. There is absolutely nothing GGG can do that will fix that.

Diablo 3/4 have had guide followers for all of both games' lives, and neither of those games have a particularly complex system. People, quite simply, don't want to do the work but they want to reap the reward.

Also turn off caps lock and add some line breaks into your posts. I might have read more than a few sentences if it was readable.

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Innuendos#5095 a écrit :

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Xzorn#7046 a écrit :

ARPG Devs should really take a step back and think why turn based games never died and have been making huge waves the past 5 years. Maybe, just maybe. It's not all about the loot.

first of all. great post.

but this is probably the best quote in there, and it might not be why you think/wanted it to be for me.

Oh no. That's very much under the umbrella of why they should look at turn based RPGs.

Story, Immersion and similar. I've made jokes in the past about why we had this dynamic map system when everyone just runs the same maps over and over. Why do we render a physical rock here and tree there if the player is never going to use it for any purpose?

Get the players invested in where they are by using map objects against enemies. Where are the doors in this game? Diablo 1 managed to make Doors an event. Open door, cool library of books and scrolls. Open another door, crap archers! We have way more options than doors these days.

...or we should.

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Polantaris#1920 a écrit :

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Jobama#9902 a écrit :

No its a game design flaw... why put in all that effort for something that might not even work? The game FAILS TO DRAW PEOPLE IN AND EXPERIMENT!!!

Sorry, but it's not and it doesn't. Their balancing can use work, sure, but it's not a design flaw that some skills are better than others, that's just the name of the game.

I have never followed a build guide in my entire life of playing either PoE game. I just do whatever I want, I learned how the game works over time, adjust to new knowledge, and make better builds next time. I use skills that people often call useless. I do combo builds in PoE2 despite people saying those are unworkable.

Build variety is there, you just need to put in the work for it. Most people don't want to, so they follow a guide, and that skews the data. There is absolutely nothing GGG can do that will fix that.

Diablo 3/4 have had guide followers for all of both games' lives, and neither of those games have a particularly complex system. People, quite simply, don't want to do the work but they want to reap the reward.

Also turn off caps lock and add some line breaks into your posts. I might have read more than a few sentences if it was readable.

Yes exactly what I said, theres a large build variety, then why are 56% of players using same ascendancy and same 2-3 builds...

Hence why I say its a game design flaw, fails to make me want to experiement with any other skill

Also the other issue with this community, "Also turn off caps lock and add some line breaks into your posts. I might have read more than a few sentences if it was readable" Don't even have the attention span to read my thoughts and you formulate a counterstatement without reading my full statement...

Games catering to people with 0 attention span, fast quick pace gameplay, exact replica of poe1, not the slow meticulous and methodical combat they claim is their goal and whole reason I paid into EA foe POE2, If I wanted POE1, I'd have been playing that long ago, Game has major design flaws...

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Polantaris#1920 a écrit :

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Innuendos#5095 a écrit :

not as naive as thinking this game has thousands of builds.

it doesnt. 56% of the playerbase is 1 of three ascendency, and the vast majority of those, are like, 1-2 builds each.... that info isnt hard to find my dude.

That's not because more builds don't exist. It's because the game is incredibly complex and most people don't want to learn how to make their own builds, so they flock to whatever person is loudest about how amazingly OP their build is.

There are hundreds of build options in PoE1, but you still see 50+% of the playerbase playing a select few, for exactly the same reasons. But according to everyone who talks about both games, PoE1 allegedly has so much build potential. Which is it, when both have the same class disposition problem?

your asking the wrong question. the right question, is why, a build disposition exsists. the awnser, is because only a handful of builds in poe2, can keep up with the pace that poe2.... injected, into itself, from poe1.

there are only so many builds that can keep up with the density of breach. an unchanged poe1 mechanic. there are only so many builds... that can kill expedition before getting slapped to respawn by remnants... an untouched poe1 mechanic. there are only so many builds that can clear rituals comfertably, a untouched poe1 mechanic... and it goes on. and on. and on.

and then you take THOSE builds, that CAN complete imported unchanged poe1 mechanics, and people ONLY PLAY the ones that can inject rarity into their build without sacrificing player power.

the question you need to ask... is why a sequel literally copied all of its predecesors mechanics, monster speed, behavior.... mechanics built on relying on speed, and fast clearing, and were untouched and not adjusted to the new gameplay slower speed forced on the playerbase in the sequel?

you cannot have a balanced roster of builds, when the above is what the foundation of the sequel is built on.

what you can have, is a complete repeat, of what poe1 was. which is why there are so many loud voices of 'dont make this poe1/poe1.5'... because THIS IS POE1 AGAIN... even if they say it is not.

and it will remain so, until all of the builds are viable. or at least a large ammount of them. or until they adjust EVERYTHING to match the slower pace of poe2.

(or you can just remove the rhoa. and nerf MS speed on the passive tree/ascendencies... which will force players to play slower, opening up more builds because the clear choice of speed and fast clearing builds, isnt so obvious anymore, and isnt so clearly the best choice. but what the fuck do i know....)