1-portal grew on me, now i really want it to stay!

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Having more portals does not change the direct difficulty of the content you are doing, the Sirus change would.

"

cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Having more portals does not change the direct difficulty of the content you are doing, the Sirus change would.

See....I disagree. I think 1-portal IS a form of difficulty and absolutely DOES change the direct difficulty of content, albeit tangentially. It's why people are so up in arms. The only thing that actually gets people to foam at the mouth like that is difficulty. It is certainly not bugged, its not unfair, its not anything resembling a fundamental flaw. It is pure and simple difficulty. What else is difficulty other than "punishing mistakes"? It's an unforgiving layer of "difficulty" that the game has.

This whole "its not difficult!" argument makes zero sense to me. Describe "difficulty" in video games to me, specifically in the arpg genre. Because there is mechanical difficulty, such as Ben_-style challenges, and there is foundational difficulty...created by the punishments for failure. HC is DIFFICULT because if you die, you lose the entire character. Bosses in PoE 2 are DIFFICULT because one wrong move, you die and the boss resets. Mapping is DIFFICULT because you die, you lose the loot and map. There are other layers of difficulty on top of that, but to claim it doesn't add to, or even represent difficulty at all, is laughable to me. There's also temporal difficulty, in that your TIME is challenged. Efficiency, exp penalty setbacks, etc. are DIFFICULTY in the form of time.

Regarding your point about bugs and things....they exist and exist in EVERY aspect of the game. But they are infrequent. Even more infrequent than that special combo rare that is unkillable and unsurvivable everyone likes to complain "always" happens. That is not at all a reason to fundamentally change the core of the game. Those are the domain of hotfixes.

As for potential disconnects....those sometimes erased all your portals anyway. And once again, SHOULD be infrequent to the point of negligible.

"

cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

See....I disagree. I think 1-portal IS a form of difficulty and absolutely DOES change the direct difficulty of content, albeit tangentially. It's why people are so up in arms. The only thing that actually gets people to foam at the mouth like that is difficulty. It is certainly not bugged, its not unfair, its not anything resembling a fundamental flaw. It is pure and simple difficulty. What else is difficulty other than "punishing mistakes"? It's an unforgiving layer of "difficulty" that the game has.

This whole "its not difficult!" argument makes zero sense to me. Describe "difficulty" in video games to me, specifically in the arpg genre. Because there is mechanical difficulty, such as Ben_-style challenges, and there is foundational difficulty...created by the punishments for failure. HC is DIFFICULT because if you die, you lose the entire character. Bosses in PoE 2 are DIFFICULT because one wrong move, you die and the boss resets. Mapping is DIFFICULT because you die, you lose the loot and map. There are other layers of difficulty on top of that, but to claim it doesn't add to, or even represent difficulty at all, is laughable to me. There's also temporal difficulty, in that your TIME is challenged. Efficiency, exp penalty setbacks, etc. are DIFFICULTY in the form of time.

Regarding your point about bugs and things....they exist and exist in EVERY aspect of the game. But they are infrequent. Even more infrequent than that special combo rare that is unkillable and unsurvivable everyone likes to complain "always" happens. That is not at all a reason to fundamentally change the core of the game. Those are the domain of hotfixes.

As for potential disconnects....those sometimes erased all your portals anyway. And once again, SHOULD be infrequent to the point of negligible.

"

Rakie1337#5746 a écrit :

Pisses me off to no end because you STILL die to invisible shit.

GGG has had 13 years to fix their on death stuff, every single league, every 3 months for over a decade all they did was make new on death shit, and re-introduce stuff they swore they would axe. No matter how careful you are, some things just don't render, and in lower defense builds where you would typically be able to dodge -- you just die suddenly with no warning, no telegraph, nothing -- with that in mind i've not been able to truly test the 1 portal system, because when I die to invisible explosions I'm just angry, that wipes HOURS of smile off my face, I have to logout and walk away for upwards of a day from a single unwarranted death..

After 13 years we know GGG cannot design on death effects. For the last 5 years people have been saying "POE 2 WILL FIX IT" -- POE 2 made everything it was supposed to "fix" significantly worse.

And that's just from invisible on death effects...


There's two very important things everyone here needs to read about GGG.


1) GGG doesn't learn from past mistakes.

no matter what, they will keep doing the same mistakes because they don't care what we think. They will never back off, or back down. Archnemesis is still in the game after they removed it, then re-introduced it, then removed it, and renamed it so people wouldn't notice..


2) GGG doesn't care what you think/like.

GGG is concerned with themselves and themselves only. They couldn't care less about the consumer, or 90% of the stuff in POE 2 wouldn't have ever seen the light of day. This is why they sold to TenCent -- so they no longer have to care about us, they get paid from China, they don't care if we quit, if anything i'm sure they want the vast majority of old players out, because with us come expectations that GGG must meet.

For years and years we've complained about the same exact things, and for years and years they've typically made those mistakes over and over, and worse and worse.

Remember "Manifestos"? They would write a huge post about how "Hey we know you don't like what were doing, but we're right, and you're wrong, deal with it" -- It's an incredibly hostile stance to take with their own consumers, and while we enjoy the game we are doing it IN SPITE of their decisions, not because of their decisions.

"

_rt_#4636 a écrit :

1-death maps are not difficulty, they're punishment. The map instances are the same, the difference is how much preparation/juicing time gets wasted because of a single death.
And similarly to HC, it narrows down player choice to specific builds and playstyles if you don't want to see your time invested get wiped by an unlucky lag spike, FPS drop or visual bug[/span]

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Uh, y... that's what I tried to say and failed. The difficulty of the map itself doesn't change, but the punishment you receive IF you fail is harder.

So while I like the "punishment", I get that many ppl dislike it and that's why I presented a solution with "Atlas Passive Tree Nodes". If you like the punishment - you can select it and if not - you take the other node.

"

_rt_#4636 a écrit :

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Uh, y... that's what I tried to say and failed. The difficulty of the map itself doesn't change, but the punishment you receive IF you fail is harder.

So while I like the "punishment", I get that many ppl dislike it and that's why I presented a solution with "Atlas Passive Tree Nodes". If you like the punishment - you can select it and if not - you take the other node.

Yeah, I understood that too. Your Atlas Passive suggestion puts another "variable" in question, which is risk vs. reward.

And as I was thinking about it, now 1-death portals kind of make some sense: maybe GGG was just trying to balance out risk/reward compared to PoE 1.

In PoE 1, you'll basically juice your map as much as you can and you have guaranteed ROI because the risk-reward ratio actually went down: more rewards with not so much added risk since you can die 5 times.

When you punish people by wiping the node after dying, you significantly increase the risk of juicing your maps too much.

But IMO if that was their intention, they failed from a UX perspective:

1) The game is not clear enough about whether or not you died an unlucky death or you're too weak, so 90% of deaths feel "cheap" and lead to frustration, so 1-death maps feel extremely frustrating
2) Allowing people only 1 death and wiping the node doesn't teach players much about their strength
3) Combination of mods and mobs create the possibility of the same juiced waystone be easy or RIP solely depending on which map it was placed on

If GGG is happy with the current risk-reward ratio, they could just give people an option when opening a map:

1-death map = current loot quantity/rarity
You can add up to 4 more deaths before the node is wiped, but each death added reduces loot quantity and/or rarity by a set amount

This way people can work they way up juicing and testing with multiple deaths until they feel like tackling 1-death maps is worth it.

Another, much more complex option, would be to:
1) Fix visual clarity and fix invisible deaths
2) Add a detailed death log that shows you what killed you. Was it an unlucky crit 1-shot? Was it several small hits from mobs? Did you get stunned or frozen?
3) Ideally add a death replay with highlights to the mobs AND attacks they used

Then we have a proper environment for 1-death maps. You die, you know why you died, you can decide whether or not you overjuiced or you got unlucky

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

I am not diagreing with any of your points, I just have a question because I hear that A LOT.

Which games have even a "death log" besides the classic "Roleplay Games" (mostly turn-based)?