2h Pure Physical Heavy Strike Slayer - build review (state of melee)

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ACGIFT a écrit :

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sidtherat a écrit :

Why Disfavor? Because of +2 range. It is absolutelly mandatory for namelock skill. Statforge does more damage and you can go crit (but this is RT build by design) but what is that damage for when you cannot hit sh..

Simply put, Disfavour is pretty garbage right now. Checking over, the three builds that DO use Heavy Strike in Betrayal right now use either Starforge or Tidebreaker. The latter does make for an lluring option due to the psuedo-7L.

REMEMBER, your whole concept was supposedly "someone making a tanky melee," so they WOULD think to build endurance charges, which'd make that ECoMS support useful.

have you played with TideBreaker? I did. I have a Tectonic Slam char with that weapon. on a Jugg. and sure, that 28% more damage + stun support is nice. Problem is - this weapon is rather slow AND it does not have +2 range.

Play a build with +2 and without it. it makes day/night difference to how the build plays. seriously, i cannot imagine playing Heavy Strike with no bonus to range. for me it is unfathomable.

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sidtherat a écrit :

Chest.. chest is the best melee chest from past league (remember. This is Joe Noob build. Not a build showcase. If you cannot handle this approach please leave). Chest that gives ultimate melee.defense aspect. In reality i waste my mana for that. But oh well. Dude. I know this chest is junk. I know it. Tell me why it is in the game in the first place..

I don't recall Craicean's Carapace being "best melee chest" at any point in time.

Similarly, I can't think of "Joe Noob" somehow knowing of a pretty obscure chest that was a bit more popular back in 3.2/Bestiary. It's a very illogical pick. If we're going with "Joe Noob," they'd likely pick the piece with the most armour... Which is to say, The Brass Dome.

well.. it is 'the melee, tanky' chest out of set of 4 ultimate Bestiary bosses. i know it is junk but I seriously wanted to use it and test Aspect of the Crab (we all know Spider is THE choice, i just wanted to know how sh.. are the 3 other options).

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sidtherat a écrit :

I see that only few readers actually understood the premise of my post. Thank you guys. To the rest: i hope youll get it soon.

You really CAN'T accurately argue both "2H/HS is bad" and "PoE's meta punishes new players" at the same time, as arguing one of them makes the other a cherry-pick/strawman.

maybe i tried to do too much at once. thanks for pointing it out.

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鬼殺し a écrit :

...At least three people responding critically have fought harder for melee improvements and reform in PoE than sid ever will. This was an almost spiteful attempt at understanding why we do it.

Not that it matters. All bets are off until 3.7. And few of us right now think that'll be some sort of magic bullet anyway.

Still, it's all we have to hang onto for now, given 3.6 is dedicated to...hand-casting.

you have some kind of issue with me or something? what is your point - you call me out, do not hide behind innuendos and speak up

about 3.7 - smoke screen and PR reaction. they dont give a f.. anymore.

how many red gems are there?
how many red gems got reworked/buffed after 2.0?
how many spells were reworked/buffed after 2.0?
how many buffs (like Arcane Surge) casters got?
how many passive changes in top part vs bottom part?

how many non-noob-trap passives are there between Marauder and Duelist? because that is the sh.. part of the tree with absolutely nothing there. you go there, grab life (that every part of the tree has so it is nothing special) and move on to better places

new meta-crafting benefits what type of players? casters maybe?

and the biggest one:
how many MTX for melee skills are there?

3.7 will give us miniscule change to Berserker (state of that class should tell you enough. they. do. not. care!), maybe some weapon bases rebalance and several new spell buffs because players use spells so this is what is getting buffs (MTX wont sell themselves). melee? noone plays it anymore so why invest there?

Seems to me that picking the Crab chest in a build that has not good way to avoid most attacks/spells and on top of that need to get really close to its target, is a pretty bad choice.
Sure, the raw stats are great, that's true.

I'm also not convinced by the rampage choice, if anything rampage is great for speed ... idk, never felt that rampage was necessary, especially in closed spaces.
Haemophiliamight feel significantly better in Delves, even though they don't have life, as long as you do actually inflict bleed on most ennemies.

I also would not have gone for Bloodlust, maim I'd rather have maim and be able to inflict bleed.


By the way, no curse at all ?

while i do agree that melee needs balance.

what OP is doing is basically pick weak of the weak option then claim it that it sucks.


you can pick weaker spell and do the same.


there are strong melee builds. but very few and melee needs more variety.

melee play style should be reworked.

sucks to be melee because being stationary, close to enemy, savage hits , avoiding massive aoe, clear speed etc.

some sort of combination of pantheon passives would be nice.

support gem that increases close range melee damage and throws killed enemys across map to do aoe damage similar to some of the corpse spells or grab dead enemies to cover yourself to gain more damage mitigation etc.

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Fruz a écrit :

Seems to me that picking the Crab chest in a build that has not good way to avoid most attacks/spells and on top of that need to get really close to its target, is a pretty bad choice.
Sure, the raw stats are great, that's true.

I'm also not convinced by the rampage choice, if anything rampage is great for speed ... idk, never felt that rampage was necessary, especially in closed spaces.
Haemophiliamight feel significantly better in Delves, even though they don't have life, as long as you do actually inflict bleed on most ennemies.

I also would not have gone for Bloodlust, maim I'd rather have maim and be able to inflict bleed.


By the way, no curse at all ?

curse on hit gloves - vulnerability

rampage.. it is from experience. rampage with 500+ stacks in delves is.. very very interesting. i do not know if you actually paid attention to rampage counter in delves. it reaches 1000 in long delves easily

yes, i know it is a bad choice. ive already stated it like 5 times already. i know it. problem is - what exactly makes it a bad choice and if the answer is 'there are choices 100% better' why this item is in the game to taunt new players into making stupid build decisions (like reserving extra mana, picking extra passives to sustain such reservation etc - this is what i wanted to emulate)

maim/bloodlust is just a numbers and rotation game. they are better/worse depending on a situation. wanted to make a use of Bloodlust. if it has no use in this build - maybe it is time to remove it from the game? all this game needs NOT are auto-loss pseudo options like that

itt: 2013 account asking why there are bad choices in a video game.

i guess every melee weapon drop should roll flaring and merciless, too.

the best part is... with all the bad choices, OP still said that the build "can work."



edit: and a lot of these "bad choices" can work better/well, but OP seemed to intentionally go out of his way to avoid synergy.

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sidtherat a écrit :

yes, i know it is a bad choice. ive already stated it like 5 times already. i know it. problem is - what exactly makes it a bad choice

You cannot efficiently use the crab stacks because you are too "exposed" ?

My bad about the curse, I should have checked the gloves.


Bloodlust is quite a terrible support I agree.

good news all 'noobs playing 2h melee': it is shaper viable :)



fight was easy and just as expected the problem is not the damage but the 'has to be there': the AOE from that freaking beam is big enough that it clips melee player if not positioned perfectly and the voidwhatever 2 minibosses that drop vertices are actually scarier than shaper himself

btw i just realised it is perfect dps starforge.. guess this is melee 'advantage'

terrible build downs shaper.

it's as if someone keeps mentioning power creep...

What i don't understand is this constantly reappearing whining as if GGG actually have personal grudge against melee in general.

3.5 people were complaining about selfcast being meaningless - 3.6 we are getting overhaul of selfcast. In 3.7 Bex promised melee overhaul - "NO, IT'S ALL LIES GGG HATES MELEE I DON'T BELIEVE IT NO NO NO". I have a lot of complains about state of the game but viewing developer this way is just nonsense.

I would like melee changes, i play melee builds every other league and never felt like it lacks that much power. Ofc we have more broken and boring spells than melee skills, but you can beat everything up to uber elder with melee skills easily. Who cares if it costs more, currency isn't for sitting in stash. More problematic is that melee mechanics and scaling usually less interesting, i hope 3.7 will adress that.

Another thing which puzzles me - OP downed Shaper on artificially suboptimal build. That's more troubling than state of melee to me. Balance is so much off that you will beat the game with anything.

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heedkid a écrit :

What i don't understand is this constantly reappearing whining as if GGG actually have personal grudge against melee in general.

3.5 people were complaining about selfcast being meaningless - 3.6 we are getting overhaul of selfcast. In 3.7 Bex promised melee overhaul - "NO, IT'S ALL LIES GGG HATES MELEE I DON'T BELIEVE IT NO NO NO". I have a lot of complains about state of the game but viewing developer this way is just nonsense.

I would like melee changes, i play melee builds every other league and never felt like it lacks that much power. Ofc we have more broken and boring spells than melee skills, but you can beat everything up to uber elder with melee skills easily. Who cares if it costs more, currency isn't for sitting in stash. More problematic is that melee mechanics and scaling usually less interesting, i hope 3.7 will adress that.

Another thing which puzzles me - OP downed Shaper on artificially suboptimal build. That's more troubling than state of melee to me. Balance is so much off that you will beat the game with anything.

it might be suboptimal but the weapon alone is 10+ EX, the skill does solid single target damage (the only important in shaper fight) and it is a pure mechanical fight where if you know all 4-5 moves you pretty much are not getting hit AT ALL.

shaper is EASIER than dark forest boss with cold degens appearing from nowhere etc stuff. i imagine you are now pure '????? dark forest boss?????'. well.. yes, for a ranged/proxy damage this boss is just yet another pushower. for melee build he is one of the most dangerous because of INSANE degens. the vortex buff most probably affected its damage A LOT. it is scary af.

on the other hand you can kill shaper with 5l spell on a 100c budget

i wonder why you are upset by this 'suboptimal' (6k life, 250k shaper dps not including impale and bleed + 3 ancestral totems) when 4k life casters wearing white rag or garbo rares can do the same: faster and safer

for real: why this build killing shaper is a problem when casters, trapers, miners and the lot were doing that for ages on a MUCH smaller budget? noone seems to complain about that..


about 3.7 and melee buff.. well. youve been there to see previous 'melee patch'. the one with glacial hammer 6% buff (after careful consideration because 10% would have broken it). go read the patchnotes along with equally amusing manifesto. go read it. seriously. do it. then youll understand.