Chris Wilson: "I want to make sure that melee classes are as good as they can be"

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Peterlerock a écrit :

I'd turn half of them into support gems.
This treatment is applied to skills that have little to no use at all.

Dual Strike -> Dual Strike (support): linked melee attack skill uses both weapons at 50-70% of their damage.

Heavy Strike + Stun support -> Heavy Blows (support): a bit of % more melee damage, a lot of reduced stun treshold

Double Strike = multistrike, just remove DS.

Glacial Hammer -> Shatter support: chance to freeze, culling frozen monsters, 25% phys to cold, 15-35% more cold damage

Good stuff you have here!

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

But for the love of God Almighty, leave us "scrubs" that want to have visceral impact, no matter how many enemies we're fighting at a time, be them 1 boss, or hordes of normal "pinatas", just with a style that forces us into that cool 16 radius of the enemy, where "you smell monster armpits to do damage"...

Let us feel like the ascending Gods that PoE entices us to be through the new revamped story, not some sissies that clear entire screens with a swing, without paying attention to where we target (those other 2 options already do that, on absurd levels at time, may I add)...

Let us embody the might, the power and the destruction that "MELEE" as a playstyle should warrant...

PS: I also don't mind further improvements to targeting, but I still want "melee" to have time to "think" about attacking certain enemies, so a default focus on the closest enemy in proximity might now always be the answer, although in most situations would be a boon, and even entice Multistrike's removal/further rework...

Question: You say you want that visceral impact, but do you know exactly what that will show as? It's entirely possible that if the monsters were given more animations (or more noticeable animations) for when they got hit that players might actually feel like their hits have an impact and that's regardless of how powerful the skill actually is.

I am pessimistic on whether GGG can or will consider tweaking enemy animations like that though. Most of them aren't even going to be seen at the end due to how much damage is possible against multiple enemies at once. If they did tweak the animations then they'd only really be seen in the storyline before maps. Maybe that's cause a notable disparity between the early levels and mapping, but maybe not.

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Ceryneian a écrit :

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Chris a écrit :

I've frequently gone back to playing melee classes in Path of Exile, and this is partly because I want to make sure that they're as good as they can be, but also because I really like the Cyclone skill. And so while Cyclone characters often turn into Sunder characters and so on, I do typically resonate with melee characters.

Y'all taking Chris' comments seriously and trying to write lengthy "feedback" lol, smh.

See, I don't think there's any reason for Chris to lie about something like that. I'm perfectly willing to believe that he sincerely wants to make melee good, he's just not very good at it.

Remember that episode of Dexter's Lab where Dexter comes across vast abandoned sections of his lab, filled with his "greatest creations" of yesteryear? That's my impression of GGG's relationship with PoE. As soon as they finish the latest shiny new toy, they forget all about it and move on to the next.

The trick is getting them to realize that what they're doing is unhealthy for the game. You can't maintain a playerbase on novelty factor alone when you're on a 3-month release schedule. The novelty wears off much quicker than that.

I'd just like to put out a different perspective than most people here: Most of the shortcomings that melee has is actually GOOD for the game, since it differentiates melee builds from ranged builds. You should NOT 'fix' most of these things that people are pointing out. The problem is that for all the shortcomings, melee has absolutely no redeeming quality. As several have already pointed out: why play melee?

In other games, Melee and Ranged were completely different classes with different trees and different available skills. This made the distinction between melee and ranged pointless, since a melee class (such as D3 barbarian) is entirely balanced around the fact that his/her skills were primarily melee. In PoE, there is no such thing. All else being equal, OF COURSE ranged is better than melee.

An example of a very simple way for something that can be implemented in PoE would be to give each character a keystone that's connected to their starting location, which reads something like: "30% More HP, 200% increased life leech, can only deal damage with melee attack skills" or "20% more attack speed, can only deal damage with ranged attack skills". This isn't even a great example, but it gives a reason to play melee.

To me, something that strikes me as very awkward in this game is the image of the "unstoppable juggernaut". I think this trope should be reserved for melee characters only, but it is not the case. I mean...if you're gonna be an unstoppable juggernaut either way, you might as well be a ranged unstoppable juggernaut.

I think that monsters are too strong, which forced this 1-shot meta to exist i.e. kill or be killed

If monsters became more tanky, but did less damage, I think that would be the type of environment where melee could flourish.

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charley222 a écrit :

sorry but before trying to show me how to link 12 support gem , try to have better read and understand of what i`m saying , i never talk about support gem but skill gem , just 1 quick comparison for the melee limitation option, if your character hold 1 2hand axe your only dps option is Vaal Cyclone oO now go look and compare all dps vaal spell caster have Oo anyway i know already i waste my time

Wasn't obvious to me that you were talking about active gems only.
However, I still have to disagree... "only dps option is vaal cyclone"? Like... wtf?

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

If you enjoy playing ranged melee, please transition to ranged characters.
If you enjoy AoE spamming, please go caster.

Maybe we have different expectations how "melee" should feel?
For me, there's nothing wrong with Cleave, Cyclone, Earthquake etc.
Sunder Range is too long, imho, Lacerate is fine.
Still feel like I play "melee" when I use those skills.

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PS: I also don't mind further improvements to targeting, but I still want "melee" to have time to "think" about attacking certain enemies, so a default focus on the closest enemy in proximity might now always be the answer, although in most situations would be a boon, and even entice Multistrike's removal/further rework...

Not "default focus on the closest enemy in proximity".

"If mouse cursor is in a monster hitbox -> attack this monster
If not -> Randomly select a monster in weapon range"

This way, you keep your "thinking" process when it matters, but get much smoother gameplay in all other situations.

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Peterlerock a écrit :

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charley222 a écrit :

sorry but before trying to show me how to link 12 support gem , try to have better read and understand of what i`m saying , i never talk about support gem but skill gem , just 1 quick comparison for the melee limitation option, if your character hold 1 2hand axe your only dps option is Vaal Cyclone oO now go look and compare all dps vaal spell caster have Oo anyway i know already i waste my time

Wasn't obvious to me that you were talking about active gems only.
However, I still have to disagree... "only dps option is vaal cyclone"? Like... wtf?

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

If you enjoy playing ranged melee, please transition to ranged characters.
If you enjoy AoE spamming, please go caster.

Maybe we have different expectations how "melee" should feel?
For me, there's nothing wrong with Cleave, Cyclone, Earthquake etc.
Sunder Range is too long, imho, Lacerate is fine.
Still feel like I play "melee" when I use those skills.

"

PS: I also don't mind further improvements to targeting, but I still want "melee" to have time to "think" about attacking certain enemies, so a default focus on the closest enemy in proximity might not always be the answer, although in most situations would be a boon, and even entice Multistrike's removal/further rework...

Not "default focus on the closest enemy in proximity".

"If mouse cursor is in a monster hitbox -> attack this monster
If not -> Randomly select a monster in weapon range"

This way, you keep your "thinking" process when it matters, but get much smoother gameplay in all other situations.

Neah, the expectations regarding "melee" should start and end with your weapon hitting an enemy in close proximity (let's say a 16 radius).

All those "cool" AoE/projectiles should be an effect of your blows.

Frost Blades would be a great example, if instead of having your hit reach a monster far away, would have the projectiles do that...

I always enjoy having to hit my target as "melee", as that separates the playstyle and improves the feeling that you place yourself in danger and actually "win" over a difficult opponent...

And such a rework to targeting would certainly improve the experience of "melee" in PoE...

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Peterlerock a écrit :

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charley222 a écrit :

sorry but before trying to show me how to link 12 support gem , try to have better read and understand of what i`m saying , i never talk about support gem but skill gem , just 1 quick comparison for the melee limitation option, if your character hold 1 2hand axe your only dps option is Vaal Cyclone oO now go look and compare all dps vaal spell caster have Oo anyway i know already i waste my time

Wasn't obvious to me that you were talking about active gems only.
However, I still have to disagree... "only dps option is vaal cyclone"? Like... wtf?

Spoiler

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

If you enjoy playing ranged melee, please transition to ranged characters.
If you enjoy AoE spamming, please go caster.

Maybe we have different expectations how "melee" should feel?
For me, there's nothing wrong with Cleave, Cyclone, Earthquake etc.
Sunder Range is too long, imho, Lacerate is fine.
Still feel like I play "melee" when I use those skills.

"

PS: I also don't mind further improvements to targeting, but I still want "melee" to have time to "think" about attacking certain enemies, so a default focus on the closest enemy in proximity might now always be the answer, although in most situations would be a boon, and even entice Multistrike's removal/further rework...

Not "default focus on the closest enemy in proximity".

"If mouse cursor is in a monster hitbox -> attack this monster
If not -> Randomly select a monster in weapon range"

This way, you keep your "thinking" process when it matters, but get much smoother gameplay in all other situations.

Oo how many vaal physical melee skill gem you have ? for using 2 hand axe ??? oO and now count how many vaal spell caster have Oo like i say before just 1 quick comparison to show how limited the option are for melee ,after you say (Wasn't obvious to me ) so obvious you are again 110% so far out , i never talk about this so plz Oo stop deforming what i`m saying , peace

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charley222 a écrit :

Oo how many vaal physical melee skill gem you have ? for using 2 hand axe ??? oO and now count how many vaal spell caster have Oo like i say before just 1 quick comparison to show how limited the option are for melee ,after you say (Wasn't obvious to me ) so obvious you are again 110% so far out , i never talk about this so plz Oo stop deforming what i`m saying , peace

These are the vaal skill gems, if I didn't miss 1 or 2 during sorting:

DpS Melee weapons:
Glacial Hammer, Ground Slam, Cyclone, Lightning Strike, Double Strike, Reave, Spectral Throw

DpS Bows/Wands:
Burning Arrow, Rain of Arrows, Power Siphon

DpS Spells:
Spark, Arc, Cold Snap, Ice Nova, Fire Ball, Flameblast, Detonate Dead, RF

Summoners:
Skeletons

Aura/Buff-like:
IC, Grace, Haste, Clarity, Discipline, Lightning Trap, (Glacial Hammer)

Weird shit:
Lightning Warp, Breach

8 for spellcasters (2-3 for each element)
Of the 7 for melee, 4 can be used with 2h Axes (I bolded them).
If anyone had the right to feel neglected in the vaal skill department, it would be bows, wands and summoners.

(Not saying any of these options are worth to build around, but how many options does a cold spell caster have here?)

i think is better you stop replying to my post always because you dont understand anything of what i`m saying

i just ask what vaal physical melee dps gem the game have for 2 hand axe . and after you go again so far out Oo the answer is so simple Vaal Cyclone but if you are caster you got so many more option of dps spell
,like i say before is only a quick comparison to show the limitation of physical melee but is look you understand anything Oo have a nice day