Harbinger language/symbol translation

It seems to me that it resembles a symbol of Vitality or Life.

maybethe "thunder doesnt mean "thunder". what if this symbole more describe the attributes of it like emmidiatly suddently or unexpected. then the following text would say "Time" and "unexpected" and something else. On the third symbole you cant identify something. So the third Symbole could be unknown, then the text would make sense.... then it says
"time" and "unexpected" and "unknown" ,Freely formulated someday the unknown appeared unexpected.


I hope this helps :)

Damn, with this news, the community effort will skyrocket! ..No.. IT's skyrocketing yet!

I am thankful to Bex_GGG for having shared 2 complicated symbols! (+ the hints for the equipments order)

Hi,
I just came up with another idea: Do we know what exactly malformed the Shaper? Since the colour he is wearing and those tentacles in his face and all of his skin in that weird colour which is certainly not the humanoid skin he had when he came to the space between the world's, looks kind of similar to the harbingers.

He speaks of awakening in the emptiness between the worlds in his memory of grief. This awakening could be him meeting the harbinger. And since the harbinger orb can reforge maps, maybe the shaper learned the skills he uses to reforge the maps from the harbingers.

In his memory of nightmare he talks about bones arranged in a certain way from a civilisation long gone. And the chamber he visits might just be the prison of the harbinger civilisation in which they were put by the Beasts influence.

So maybe the harbingers lived in wraeclast (civilisation long lost). Which leaves us with two possibilities:
1.
Maybe they are the vaal civilisation which disappeared, since we know the vaal did not write in our language. We can check on this theory by looking at the vaal writings with the four golden pages and the vaal letters. Maybe they are similar to the harbinger writings, though they seem not to be, so maybe there is no connection.
It would fit, that the Vaal created or woke the Beast, which imprisoned them, so in that sense "they failed themselves" as the golden pages suggest.
Note: I'm not sure if Icius perandus wrote the golden pages himself, so they would be Azmerian language, which might differ from the vaal language. Since the pictures of vaal letters are not very clear, I am not sure if we can check the theory properly. But we can translate the letters so maybe it is not harbinger tongue, not sure.

2.
They might be a civilisation who lived in wraeclast earlier than the Vaal since they are using pictograms where Vaal used written words. (As we hopefully proved or disproved with the Vaal letters.) Abstract words instead of pictograms seem to be the usual way language can develop, but I'm no expert on this.

Anyway still it stands that the harbingers disappeared from wraeclast. Whether they left on their own, they fled or they were taken away by someone or something like the Beast for example, is not sure.
Yet, they survived in another dimension and given the visual resemblance between them and the sharper in terms of colouring and that they both can influence entire maps, I suggest that the Shaper at least met the harbingers and most likely even learned from them.

The resemblance might be caused by the other dimension or dimensions, they live in. Like a sort of dimension suntain ;)
I think on the meeting we can agree since it is unlikely that the shaper wandered around the dimension without meeting them. Especially since they were to roam free after the Beast died.

If the shaper learned from the harbingers, he might have adopted their philosophy, so his search for absolute perfection at all cost (Which we learn from his dialogue during the fight.) might be a goal the harbinger have teached to him. But this is just speculation.

Im not even sure whether or not this is the right place to put this theory. I'm sorry if not. I just thought it might help to have a thesis on their goals when trying to translate their language.

Have a nice day everyone. And please remember it is just a theory I don't want to annoy anyone with it and it might be completely wrong.

Nice!
This is insane!

I don't know why, but to me, the orange text in item descriptions looks more like a list of mods affecting some entity (you?, your harbingers?, the enemy harbingers?). To me, people trying to make "storytelling-like" descriptions are way off.

Like, the last line in The Fracturing Spinner Blunt Arrow Quiver looks like it would say "Your skills that fork/(chain?) have increased accuracy.", from "you <possessive> skills <conjunction "that"> fork(/chain?) <verb "receive/are granted"> increased chance <preposition "of"> hitting."

Likewise, the first line of The Fracturing Spinner would be just "You have increased accuracy.", from "you <possessive> increased chance <preposition "of"> hitting".

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BlowITA a écrit :

I don't know why, but to me, the orange text in item descriptions looks more like a list of mods affecting some entity (you?, your harbingers?, the enemy harbingers?)

Yes I think that was the consensus of many of us before Bex's announcement today, in which she states:

'When arranged in a specific order, the flavour text from the Harbinger unique items tells the history of the Harbingers, and what led to their arrival in Wraeclast.'


Kanta_yokuba, the symbol you identified as totem actually means fire. The Harbinger you see is a harbinger that uses flame dash. Sometimes the small squares in Harbinger glyphs are drawn as plus signs.

Freggers, I assumed that, since those three symbols were not connected in any way, they were just being used as an example of the kind of pictographs you can see in the Harbinger language. Though the paragraph above does refer to time, so maybe you have a case there.

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Toshis8 a écrit :

Now the "connection symbols". For example, lets take symbol:

It shows one "word symbol" dependency on another, like something on the right side of the symbol is "coming out" of the left side of the symbol, to put it in a simplest way it could represent word "of". For example, if we wanted to write "Harbinger of storm" it would look like this:

This part confuses me.. You're saying that the Harbinger is coming out of the storm? Shouldn't it be a storm coming out of the Harbinger?

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RXA623 a écrit :

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Stefouch a écrit :

the Thunder symbol is mirrored, probably meaning that all the sentences on all equipment pieces are mirrored (I suppose for flavor meanings).

The problem with that is that other than the mask, shield and map, all other phrases on items have the "in between" symbols used properly, which should not be the case if they were simply mirrored. So that would be either a mistake, different symbol entirely or a really inconsistent mirroring structure (mirror the "words" but leave the "connection symbols" alone, basically reversing the word order).

I am just sharing my thoughts about this but they're kinda unlikely to be right.

I read time ago that unique items are not the true uniques but mirrored copies of the originals. This could be the explaination of the mirrored "Thunder" glyph on the unique mask (The mask we can get is a mirrored one). But as RXA623 says in its post, the connectors are not affected for some reason.

"Unique items are more than likely copies of their original counterparts, their mirrored status is simply hidden."

I think that the reason is that the connectors of the texts are equivalent to the "links" of the items in POE. So, when an item is mirrored, it's shape changes but not his link structure (I mean the mirrored S that a 6L forms). I think that this is the same for the harbinger uniques: they are mirrored because they are uniques so the symbols on them are mirrored, but not the connectors.



Maybe this is a hint telling us that the Harbinger words are their gems/skills, the connectors their equivalent of our links to put them toguether, and they do not speak because for them it involves the cast of skills...(Maybe too much drugs here xD)

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Sheriff_K a écrit :

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Toshis8 a écrit :

Now the "connection symbols". For example, lets take symbol:

It shows one "word symbol" dependency on another, like something on the right side of the symbol is "coming out" of the left side of the symbol, to put it in a simplest way it could represent word "of". For example, if we wanted to write "Harbinger of storm" it would look like this:

This part confuses me.. You're saying that the Harbinger is coming out of the storm? Shouldn't it be a storm coming out of the Harbinger?

Harbinger symbols have broader meaning depending on context, its hard to pinpoint it with one unchanging word. The first translation wasn't the most accurate. Symbol you're talking about in a broader meaning expresses some sort of relationship, belonging, being part of something bigger, could represent prepositions like "of" or "for" and reads backwards. Frankly, you have to look at whole sentence of symbols to choose the best meaning, choose which one fits the best. I should note that meaning can slightly variate but stay to its general concept. Like lightning symbol for example, it can be either a thunder or storm, not necessarily lightning, depends on context. Take a look at that google document, people did a lot of great work there.