Trade scamming

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

It has nothing to do with supporter packs. It's hours of investigation and arbitration to come to a decision. Each complaint. That costs lots of money. GGG would spend their whole time playing nanny judge and jury. How about you guys take responsibly? Like buy from reputable people vouched in trade forums? Like ppl you "know" well? Or just don't trust anyone and do it yourself? Thats what I do. Never been scammed. Never will be.

But they take hours of investigation to scour vouch thread and insta delete anyone who say the guy scammed someone ?

Seem like a good argument.
But I agree with your last thing. You deserve to get scammed if you buy your challenge. Can't do it ? Then you don't deserve the challenge. That's it

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Parfums a écrit :

But they take hours of investigation to scour vouch thread and insta delete anyone who say the guy scammed someone ?

That's part of the problem I have with this whole thing. I think GGG is giving way too much of a benefit of a doubt to egregious scammers for some reason, and on the other hand I think it's actually creating more work for them. Just this one guy for instance, I reported him for making trade posts in global. We see that support came in here and edited a thread. I know that many others reported him as well and it is safe to assume that support removed other mentions of him.

So all in all how much time did they devote to either protecting this scammer, or to going through (and presumably ignoring) reports of his scamming? I've seen multiple screenshots from multiple times he's scammed people, I've seen multiple people say they reported him. GGG is devoting resources to this guy, clearly.

This is what makes the refusal to ban him all the more puzzling. In a court of law in America, even with things like the Constitution tying the courts hands, it is still easy to get a conviction if you have a lot of witnesses that testify to the crime. We know we have that there. Somehow, for some reason, GGG sets the standard of proof beyond what ever robustly pro-defendant criminal systems employ. Why? To what end? That I do not know.

In the long run I would argue that GGG would save time and resources by simply sending a message that the more egregious scammers will be dealt with. There would be less scamming, there would be less of a fuss about scammers, and in the long run both the game would be more pleasant for the players but I do believe if handled appropriately it would also save GGG resources.

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KrAzY3 a écrit :

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Xavathos a écrit :

I'm 200% for actions against scammers, but do it right folks. Use your heads.

All you did is describe things that will result in 0 action by GGG. The poster took the one step that in the least could protect others, this bastard has mirror quality items as a result of his scamming. He's been reported by so many people, he isn't even following basic rules, he's even spamming his scam in global. What has been done? What is the result of all these reports, these screenshots? Nothing, except the guy is rich as hell.

It is the fault of GGG that this guy is allowed to continue scamming.

Also, since some people seem unclear on this. It would take no massive investigation, no great detective work. He's been running the same scam for days, he's run it so many times he is filthy stinking rich even though he can't make a decent build and hasn't played much. He's been reported so many times, and there's so many witnesses. Seriously guys, how many witnesses does it take to convict someone? In real life, not that many, there are so many filed reports, there are screenshots, there's his chat log which shows the guy day after day posting the same scam. Helen Keller could figure out this guy was a scammer (with the information GGG has, information GGG helps to some extent keep out of the hands of players)!

If this was a one time case it would be different. If this was one guild accusing him this would be different. But the evidence is abundant, if this was in the real world, any prosecutor in any country in the world would love to try this as a case of fraud. How many witnesses and victims do you need? The no name policy would be fine if GGG would actually punish scammers.

You're the expert on the actions and inactions of GGG staff, clearly. My apologies for my foolishness, your highness.

Under your rule, we will all be safe from scammers, which will be all of us if one malicious guy decides to report the rest of us on forums with "proof". Brilliant.

Its GGG fault that someone is allowed to scam?
Seriously? I mean this is an online game, do they really need to police everyone. Scamming is something that been done forever in any game with trading, you always have to be careful and there's always a risk since we're mostly anonymous while playing.

I mean for fuck sake just be careful and move on. I never buy any "service" in an arpg for this very reason.

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Xavathos a écrit :

Under your rule, we will all be safe from scammers, which will be all of us if one malicious guy decides to report the rest of us on forums with "proof". Brilliant.

I said "egregious" and you chose to ignore the rest. This guy got filthy stinking rich off scams, and there are tens of people, if not hundreds of people who witnessed and reported his behavior. What some people want to do it fail to differentiate and that's absurd.

Let me give one example. Let's say someone gets accused of rape right? And there's no real evidence, just an accusation. Ok, he said she said right? And that's what an ordinary scamming situation can come down to. We all know not much can be done. But when ten women report the same man raping them? If the authorities do not take action this is a travesty! In the very least a robust investigation is warranted correct? If the accusation proves to be false, then the false accusers should face repercussions as well.

This is where your argument, and I understand the sentiment, but in this case it goes off the rails! This guy got rich as hell, doing the scam. Ok? This guy has been reported by multiple people, there are multiple SCREENSHOTS (otherwise known as evidence), there are multiple reports from various sources, and there's a pattern of behavior here. He's been in chat for days selling things he can't possibly sell over and over and over much in the same way someone else (I decided to edit out the name because this guy is so sensitive he had to go into scumbag protection with the help of GGG) fabricated the number of mirrors he had. It's simply not possible!

So, what you are trying to do is mix up an egregious and obvious situation, one in which GGG has an easy choice, one in which as I said, and I gave this as a burden of proof, any criminal court in any part of the world would get an easy conviction based on this evidence, and say oh yeah what if someone just makes something up. Well, guess what? If someone just makes something up, there won't be this level of evidence!

This guy scammed his way to a mirror quality item, all while lvl 89 with a crappy build. What kind of brain dead moron can't figure out what's going on here? He's been in trade chat for days running the same scam! It has to be obvious to GGG, the only reason it might not be obvious to some players would be because GGG prevents his being exposed as a scammer.

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Mezion a écrit :

Its GGG fault that someone is allowed to scam?

It is when these individuals have been repeatedly reported with various pieces of evidence and the only action GGG has taken is to conceal his idenity. I understand once again that there needs to be some proof. I understand that one accusation isn't enough, or that merely accusations shouldn't be enough. But in this instance we see a clear pattern of behavior, we see a guy selling a very rare occurrence over and over and over again, etc...

Let's just put this out here. He's level 89 right? Yet somehow he's found countless warbands strongboxes. Anyone here care to explain exactly how you manage that? I mean seriously, how do you, without leveling pull that one off? That's just one tiny bit of evidence though, there's way more than that. Why would tens of people, if not hundreds of people from all over the game conspire to falsely accuse him? How did he get so rich at lvl 89 with a crappy build? If scamming is not what occurred in his screenshots, what the hell is he doing? I could go on but you get the point. This is just what I, as an outside observer have witnessed. That all qualifies as evidence, those are all the sorts of things that get criminal convictions in real life. This is an open and shut case.

I am not saying GGG should ban everyone who is reported for scamming. I am saying yes, GGG should friggin' ban this guy! When GGG's only action is to protect people like this, they are encouraging the community to turn on itself. They're not making anyone safer, they're not making the game any better (and it is a great game), they're helping it become a cesspool and that's unnecessary.

I mean if we're going to be lawless, why not go all the way? Bring the bots and the RMTers out of the shadows to right? Because I mean pretty much every one of the same benefits of a doubt should be afforded them to right? I've heard of people getting bans just for farming docks because it LOOKED like a bot. I've heard of people getting a ban just because of a username that insinuated RMTing. I for one think they went too far in those instances, but clearly there is policing and they do take action. I'm asking for a much more reasonable course of action, one in which they get rid of the obvious scammers in the same way they get rid of obvious RMTers and botters.

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Parfums a écrit :

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

It has nothing to do with supporter packs. It's hours of investigation and arbitration to come to a decision. Each complaint. That costs lots of money. GGG would spend their whole time playing nanny judge and jury. How about you guys take responsibly? Like buy from reputable people vouched in trade forums? Like ppl you "know" well? Or just don't trust anyone and do it yourself? Thats what I do. Never been scammed. Never will be.

But they take hours of investigation to scour vouch thread and insta delete anyone who say the guy scammed someone ?

Seem like a good argument.
But I agree with your last thing. You deserve to get scammed if you buy your challenge. Can't do it ? Then you don't deserve the challenge. That's it

Absolutely it takes hours if not impossible. First thing scammer will say is you owed him X for stuff before. then they have to research his counter claims if they even exist in chat logs. Or better yet, he got DC'ed. Then as soon as GGG did become enforcers, and scammers know it, it's DC all the time or hit and run with multiple accounts. Then you have issue of false claims. It's a briar patch I don't blame GGG for not getting into. Its up to you guys to not get scammed.

Exactly, From a competition and fair play prospective. I wouldn't be all to motivated to aid ppl cheating on their homework anyway if i were Chris. Especially if it's gonna cost me money.

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Vakarlan a écrit :

You look at his challenges, 23, its already very telling. Oh yea btw this is a known scammer in poe, but hey GGG gotta protect them. If this goes un checked ima start scamming too Kappa.

So only thing that stops you from being a dirtbag is rules and punishment. Got it. Remind me never to go sailing with u where there is no law or police.. I don't want to be fish food.

Good grief people. Stop handing over currency to strangers online. I would think that this would be common sense.

Honestly I feel like GGG needs to take a steam-like approach. If you scam enough people and are found guilty by GGG your account gets moved over to a scammer server. So the scammers (and everyone else who keeps defending the scammers for that matter) can play together and keep scamming each other, and us "normal" players can play in a cleaner friendlier league/environment.

That would simply make the game be to find who could get the most people moved to the scammer server in a month. Scammers would keep score.