"Never pay-to-win" Dishonest Marketing by GGG?

So what I gathered, is that now I am transformed into a whale?

Do I get to at least choose which species of whale?

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xSyK0TiC a écrit :

So what I gathered, is that now I am transformed into a whale?

Do I get to at least choose which species of whale?

You're a whale. You make the rules. :-)

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FelicityFlowers a écrit :

Is it fair to say "Never Pay to Win" on the new Atlas of Worlds marketing: http://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/AtlasofWorldsFactSheet.jpg

I think obviously the premium stash tabs do not confer just a cosmetic in game appearance. I think the premium stash tabs confer a tangible in game advantage in that it makes currency ultimately easier to obtain. I am not saying it is impossible to be successful in game without the premium tabs - but they certainly make the in game experience and acquisition of currency much easier.

I think the premium tabs are paying to get an in game in advantage - which I think is the common interpretation of "Pay to Win". I'm not saying if it is good or bad business by GGG - or judging GGG for charging for the premium stash tabs - or commenting on the price of the tabs - or judging those who do or do not have premium tabs - but is it not misleading to now advertise as "Never Pay to Win"?

I could say that not having premium stash tabs gives players an advantage and makes currency not only easier to obtain, but far more productive, as the player is either selling stuff they don't need or selling off chaos recipes.

Unless you have actually played both ways and tried it out in the same league, it would be difficult to tell.

I did this during Prophecy - , and on an alt account with ZERO premium or any extra stash tabs (beyond the basic four) , I made far more currency and ended up with a stronger character. If I wasn't using it, I was turning it into chaos orbs, or alt shards. When I had a few rare rings or amulets, and a belt or two, I would hold off and save some boots and gloves and the rest to turn them into chaos.

The chaos orbs from recipe ended up being about 1/5 of my currency. The bulk came from alt shards ->Jewelers -->Fusings. The difference between items sold was negligible.

I spent about twice as much time on the main account character as I did on the no mtx/no stash tab character, and still ended up with less.

I spent way more time hoarding and organizing stuff on my main account charactrer.

So, I dispute the premium stash tab gives an advantage theory.

I had fun on both accounts, but if I am given a limited amount of playing time in a new league to acquire some currency to trade for new uniques or what not, I will be focusing my time on my account that doesn't have any extra stash tabs.

To put it more clearly - I have plenty of stash tabs on my main account. I will likely be getting one of the Atlas supporter packs. I could put that supporter pack on my alt account, and get some premium tabs and mtx to make that account more fun. I am hesitant to do it that way, because it would make that account less successful in new leagues.

YMMV.

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FelicityFlowers a écrit :

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e1337donkey a écrit :

I would agree that having more tabs, premium, and currency ones, are a form of gaining convenience. You have a sizeable advantage in how you can utilize your inventory for trading purposes.

That being said, how do you win in PoE? Having more stash tabs in race events, don't help.. because the event is over before use them. Outside of racing, there is nothing competitive to define someone winning over another player. The act of creating a build, going though acts/maps killing monsters, finding loot to use or trade has no clear defined way of winning.

The pay to win concept gets thrown around a lot of free to play games but sometimes I feel like it doesn't have much context to a game like this. Certainly you gain an advantage in the trading game. But all that means is you have more access to powerful items to push your characters further. Or make multiple strong characters.

Literally there is no way to win, like you can't beat anyone in PoE... its not possible.

Just listen to Old Chris Wilson for guidance. If you agree that the premium stash tabs add convenience then there is a problem. Old Chris Wilson defined "pay-to-win" as "microtransaction" that provides an "advantage" for one player over another. "Microtransactions" should "completely divorced" from any "game play boost" as this would be "pay-to-win". The reason such a "pay-to-win" system is a problem is that the positive feelings of players are "substantially reduced" if other players can "buy advantage" to have the convenience to obtain currency for "less effort" and the overall "integrity of the game" is diminished:

We don’t want to sell anything that affects the game economy or provides a competitive advantage for one player over another. We try to completely divorce our microtransactions from the game balance. Selling items that affect a player’s stats, or can be traded, or provide some type of gameplay boost are examples of things that we feel would be pay-to-win.

We’ve designed Path of Exile as the game that we want to play, and we don’t want to play a game where players can buy advantage. In an Action RPG, it’s very important that players can only acquire levels and items as a direct result of their hard work so that the integrity of the game is kept intact. Players play for the feeling of finding and having an amazing item, and that feeling is substantially reduced if other players can get it for less effort.

I feel that all this pretty much points out that it IS pay to win. I mean, if they suddenly let your pets pick up currency that drops in a solo game, people would be mad. This would give a slight convenience, which is an advantage, and pay to win. Not having to set up a shop, is slightly pay to win. I am okay with this slight advantage, and have used many kinds of methods to trade. Honestly, the benefit seems pretty slight to me. Right now I throw items I want to sell into a stash tab that auto prices based on the tab, where before I did the exact same thing, but every half hour to an hour I hit a button on a third party program that scanned my tabs and posted the price for me. The only real advantage here is a couple less alt-tabs, a click or three, and the fact that my item MIGHT get posted SLIGHTLY faster (and that only because I am lazy).

So is it pay to win? Probably. Is it an advantage worth worrying about? No more than buying multiple tabs were before the shop function. As has been pointed out, it doesn't help you find rare drops, it doesn't sell the drops for you, it doesn't even really help you level up all that much faster, as the multiple level 90's in a self found race can prove. It is a little white lie to me. There is a slight advantage to be had for shelling out cash, but it isn't game breaking. I just wish they handed out premium stash tabs as season rewards. Either race rewards or just the league challenge rewards. They hand out spiffy armors that I want once in a while, why not give out the premium stash tabs that are "not" pay to win?

i noticed when i put on my storm cloud mtx for ArcticArmor

i can totally HEAR it all the time,
whereas normal ArcticArmor you cant hear.. or can baaarely hear it at all


sometimes i have forgotten to turn on this aura, iam sure tons of people tend to forget to turn on auras sometimes

storm cloud mtx for ArcticArmor provides a gameplay advantage, allowing me to HEAR (and more easily SEE btw) when my ArcticArmor is active


LOL, sorta minor but its true, it provides a gameplay advantage
and i use it for this gameplay advantage, its useful

(but lmao i got it for free, that mystery box they gave us for free for christmas.. lmao)

pay2win stash tabs are pay2win ... theres no argument, its just true, glad i got an upgrade for $1 lol, i was poor as hell in this game (like 4 exalts max) .. now the value of all my "investment" items is like 200 exalts .. well perandus league helped alot too, but i wouldntve EVER played the "trading game" without the prem stash tab

Create a second account and use one of the Market tools like Procurement = Equal to 4 premium stash tabs.

Totally for free. So where is the advantage you can get ? Oh yes it saves about 5 clicks and alt+tabs. Yes that is so much Pay2Win.

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Xavderion a écrit :

I don't think it's misleading because the amount of p2w in this game is miniscule.

This. The p2w in this game is more like, "pay for convenience" more than anything. And compared to most other f2p games, we should REALLY consider ourselves lucky.

Look at it this way.. You can certainly play without the tabs, and you can create alts and put stuff in the inventory so the extra tabs are just for convenience. I remember I played for several months before buying a few tabs. Public stash tabs are a very new thing, you can set up a shop as we all did and use acquisition if you cannot afford to buy premium tabs.

The game is free to play but costs a lot to develop and maintain, so there has to be some incentive for people to spend a few bucks. Put things in perspective and be realistic. GGG has also given us free MTX in several leagues, which was very generous.

Given the above, it is wrong to call GGG dishonest for saying the game is free. TLDR grow up.

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xSyK0TiC a écrit :

So what I gathered, is that now I am transformed into a whale?

Do I get to at least choose which species of whale?

Orca is best whale.