"Never pay-to-win" Dishonest Marketing by GGG?

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mark1030 a écrit :

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xxSerpentlordxx a écrit :

. (Sure you can list items on the forum. No-one will likely respond and you will not likely generate very much currency. )

Sounds like you never had a shop. It doesn't work like that. You post the items on the forums and it gets listed on poe.trade. Just like items in premium tabs. You can even avoid the delay in it showing up on poe.trade by using Acquisition, which tells poe.trade that you put the item in the shop so it updates right away. Nobody goes through shop threads on the forums to find items to buy.

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Xavderion a écrit :

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Rhilnix a écrit :

Go play to archeage,blade and soul,black desert online, tree of savior,devilian,lotro, ddo....etc

You'll see what is a real f2p and p2w.

Poe is a free game.

Tree of Savior is such a piece of shit lol. It lags literally all the time. If you think PoE is unoptimized, go download ToS and just try it.

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xxSerpentlordxx a écrit :

What I have suggested is to put everyone on an equal playing field by giving all player access to one indexed stash tab so that they can quickly and easily trade just like the players that purchased the tabs.

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TwistedTrip a écrit :

For me personally, "Pay to Win" has always been indicative of pay to buy power. With clear advantages.. weapons/armour, experience/time.

Life, isn't a serious of black and white choices, there are many shades of grey. If you search long and hard enough without being facetious you can usually find an acceptable answer that a lines with your beliefs.

What has always remained a constant with me, is that even before taking into account the ability to buy more tabs. Path of Exiles base amount of tabs, far exceeds others of it's kin and these games too have in the past or currently still do offer trading between players. This basis alone is the shade by which I consider PoE not to be of the pay to win variety.

Now if another game were to come along and say offer, 6, 8 or even 10 tabs of it's like would PoE then be considered "Pay to Win"? I am buying, at the very core of the argument a larger amount that is already some of the largest in this games specific genre, space.

I am not buying, Sword of a Thousand Truths, Shavronne's Wrappings, double experience or act/difficulty skips. I am buying a larger amount of tabs that is already larger or thee largest (without an actual check) of space offered by these specific games. Trade I believe has been most greatly offered here in PoE. You already have the greatest ability to make the best of trade right here when compared with others.

Now you shall settle for what you have, and find new problems. It is the human condition.

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FelicityFlowers a écrit :

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TwistedTrip a écrit :

For me personally, "Pay to Win" has always been indicative of pay to buy power. With clear advantages.. weapons/armour, experience/time.

Life, isn't a serious of black and white choices, there are many shades of grey. If you search long and hard enough without being facetious you can usually find an acceptable answer that a lines with your beliefs.

What has always remained a constant with me, is that even before taking into account the ability to buy more tabs. Path of Exiles base amount of tabs, far exceeds others of it's kin and these games too have in the past or currently still do offer trading between players. This basis alone is the shade by which I consider PoE not to be of the pay to win variety.

Now if another game were to come along and say offer, 6, 8 or even 10 tabs of it's like would PoE then be considered "Pay to Win"? I am buying, at the very core of the argument a larger amount that is already some of the largest in this games specific genre, space.

I am not buying, Sword of a Thousand Truths, Shavronne's Wrappings, double experience or act/difficulty skips. I am buying a larger amount of tabs that is already larger or thee largest (without an actual check) of space offered by these specific games. Trade I believe has been most greatly offered here in PoE. You already have the greatest ability to make the best of trade right here when compared with others.

Now you shall settle for what you have, and find new problems. It is the human condition.

I just look to what Old Chris Wilson has said in the past:

We’ve designed Path of Exile as the game that we want to play, and we don’t want to play a game where players can buy advantage. In an Action RPG, it’s very important that players can only acquire levels and items as a direct result of their hard work so that the integrity of the game is kept intact. Players play for the feeling of finding and having an amazing item, and that feeling is substantially reduced if other players can get it for less effort.

I don't think players should be able to "buy advantage". Your argument revolves around premium stash tabs not being that big of an advantage relative to other games - which Old Chris Wilson made very clear when first marketing the game that the game was pure and players could not "buy advantage" to preserve the "integrity of the game".

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XigTek a écrit :

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FelicityFlowers a écrit :

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TwistedTrip a écrit :

For me personally, "Pay to Win" has always been indicative of pay to buy power. With clear advantages.. weapons/armour, experience/time.

Life, isn't a serious of black and white choices, there are many shades of grey. If you search long and hard enough without being facetious you can usually find an acceptable answer that a lines with your beliefs.

What has always remained a constant with me, is that even before taking into account the ability to buy more tabs. Path of Exiles base amount of tabs, far exceeds others of it's kin and these games too have in the past or currently still do offer trading between players. This basis alone is the shade by which I consider PoE not to be of the pay to win variety.

Now if another game were to come along and say offer, 6, 8 or even 10 tabs of it's like would PoE then be considered "Pay to Win"? I am buying, at the very core of the argument a larger amount that is already some of the largest in this games specific genre, space.

I am not buying, Sword of a Thousand Truths, Shavronne's Wrappings, double experience or act/difficulty skips. I am buying a larger amount of tabs that is already larger or thee largest (without an actual check) of space offered by these specific games. Trade I believe has been most greatly offered here in PoE. You already have the greatest ability to make the best of trade right here when compared with others.

Now you shall settle for what you have, and find new problems. It is the human condition.

I just look to what Old Chris Wilson has said in the past:

We’ve designed Path of Exile as the game that we want to play, and we don’t want to play a game where players can buy advantage. In an Action RPG, it’s very important that players can only acquire levels and items as a direct result of their hard work so that the integrity of the game is kept intact. Players play for the feeling of finding and having an amazing item, and that feeling is substantially reduced if other players can get it for less effort.

I don't think players should be able to "buy advantage". Your argument revolves around premium stash tabs not being that big of an advantage relative to other games - which Old Chris Wilson made very clear when first marketing the game that the game was pure and players could not "buy advantage" to preserve the "integrity of the game".

So, how do premium stash tabs makes it easier for you to level up and find items? You need to read that quote again. Here, I'll double highlight it for you.


In an Action RPG, it’s very important that players can only acquire levels and items as a direct result of their hard work so that the integrity of the game is kept intact. Players play for the feeling of finding and having an amazing item, and that feeling is substantially reduced if other players can get it for less effort.

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AndIMustMask a écrit :

(i seriously doubt someone went into a board meeting and asked "how can we force people to buy stash and currency tabs?--flood them with lots of small items!"), just as a consequence of the new league's design.

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Bars a écrit :

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AndIMustMask a écrit :

(i seriously doubt someone went into a board meeting and asked "how can we force people to buy stash and currency tabs?--flood them with lots of small items!"), just as a consequence of the new league's design.

Err... why? I mean, stash tabs are GGG's main source of income, of course they will try to make people use more stabs. That's not malicious intent, that's basic marketing. I would be concerned for their business sense if they didn't think about that.

A lot of things in the game are designed around filling stash tabs. The chisel recipe. Orbs which can only be stacked in small numbers. Div cards. Chaos recipe. Maps and the way you want to keep even the small-tier ones if you're doing the chisel recipe. Bruteforce chancing by stacking white bases. Indexed trading without an auction house. Etc.

And it's fine. As I said earlier in the thread, PoE is a product and its creators want to eat and have money to buy stuff. Wouldn't you?