Melee is the worst bullshit ever in poe
" I've got videos of deleted characters existing beyond level 72, you're being ridiculous. I've done plenty of mapping. More importantly, the fact you found a build that works doesn't indicate anything, because anything will work with a billion exalts worth of gear. This is why I can't even take you seriously, you intentionally just come in here saying irrelevant anectodes and act as if real data means nothing. Hey I have an idea, how about you goetz and Peter all go run a country based on your opinions and not using any actual data or information about anything. Just base all your decisions on "well I think this so I must be right". Because that's what you three do best. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. |
|
" Not really, with a bow you get very far with not having optimal defense, particularly in mid level play (like going from 65-85), particularly because you can play around not taking damage. Thats essentially what I am hearing when a lot of people say ranged are OP, its not that ranged are OP, per say, its that unless you are super wealthy, ranged have a much easier time in mid level play (where gear sensitivity is really high) |
|
" Oh I agree, I'm simply pointing out that bows get the same scaling as melee. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Dernière édition par Legatus1982#1658, le 29 déc. 2014 à 20:08:04
|
|
" You find that true until you go to high maps, where your 5k lifepool as melee gets melted to simple mapmods allready and all you can do is hope that spaming that paniced flasks helps. http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1158669
Cyclone MARA Beginners and Advanced Guide. |
|
" LOL. So your highly specific melee character is good (specific being just you), therefore it is representative of melee in general being good? K. So what if we don't have builds like yours? Isn't that the point? That everybody does not have to have the same build? You know, little something called Build Diversity? The facts have been stated. Melee always end up in an inferior position to ranged. If I have to spend 10-20 more passives on defence just to have a hope of staying alive that already puts me significantly behind.
Disclaimer
Despite the title of this thread, I think most would agree that melee is not impossible, its just the disparity between alternative options is far too great. Much greater than it has a right to be.
IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle. You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta. Dernière édition par Ashen_Shugar_IV#4253, le 29 déc. 2014 à 21:28:55
|
|
|
This game rewards good choices, and penalises bad ones.
Rarely, if ever, are you rewarded for choosing Melee. IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde
It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle. You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta. |
|
" the fact that I have many melee characters that work well ranging from 5 chaos worth of gear to 500 exalts worth and I have not made a melee character that didnt work since early open beta says everything needed to be said about this discussion. Thats not what I 'think', thats a fact, unlike everything you are basing your statements on. " that doesnt happen if you play a good build, you should be fine. You are not talking about melee, you are talking about your experience with your melee characters. I play high maps with 5k life melee chars with hard mods and I cant even remember the last time I died on a melee character doing it, it might have happened once this year. " I dont have 1 melee build, I have 25 characters in maps, a lot of whom have had 4, 5+ full respecs over time. I have played dozens of melee builds that work, literally dozens. Life, ci, evasion, armour, hybrid, daggers, claws, swords, axes, maces, 2 handed, 1 handed with shield, dual wield, enough to know that theres a wide range of stuff that works. HvR got world first hc atziri kill with a melee, etup has been top 5 on the ladder with melees a number of times. Build diversity is fine, the build diversity you have experienced is obviously lacking. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
|
|
" I am not competing on the ladder nor do I care or use it soley as my know all data when trying to present facts, you are so high up on your petisole when you haven't been anywhere near the top of the ladder to honestly complain about it. Get top 20 and come back and talk, otherwise don't use the ladder as your excuse. Desync is almost always the players fault, once you know about the effect it has on you, which it sounds like you are aware, then you know of the risk\causes of desync and should take proper precautions to make it not happen. As for relevant can we not pull information from scion, ranger and maruarder when discussing melee, IMO all those other classes have a better start for melee builds, so just because one class is now under preforming because of the tree changes, doesn't mean that all melee is suffering. As for build diversity comment from @ashen of course there should always be some diversity, he was simply stating the fact that his build was a successful melee build that built proper defenses, no one is saying you have to copy his tree in order to be successful. Melee in this game simply doesn't have a way to compensate for the fact they need to be up close and personal with monsters, blaming ranged isn't the problem, of course naturally they don't have to get as close and danger as ranged, but this has been the case in EVERY SINGLE ARPG ever. What diablo 3 did in order to "balance" this won't work for PoE as classes don't limit skills. Let me graphically represent what this discussion is all about:  https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. |
|
|
There is no real discussion here.
People who have played lots of melee and lots of ranged builds acknowledge that melee has severe disadvantages that ranged simply does not have. More effort and more skill need to go into melee to make it work. That doesn't mean melee is impossible, it means it sucks as a choice. Then there are those that either haven't played melee or have only really played melee, which are not good experiences to use when trying to compare the two. --- I agree with Legatus somewhat. Far too much subjectivity going on, not enough objectivity. The numbers we want are something like "how much time and effort needs to go into a successful melee build versus the same measurements for ranged builds", and those numbers are extremely hard to get. Class selection in a league is a rough objective measurement of what people play, but that says nothing about difficulty. It could just be that everyone wants to play the harder thing, or people don't consider hardness when playing their build. Skill selection in a league would be a better measurement of what people use, but again assumes that people only use things that are preferentially easy. I don't know how to get the objective measurement that I want, but I do know that the last few pages have added nothing other than a few e-peen displays and a few "no u" moments. |
|
|
Having played both melee and ranged builds, I do agree that melee needs an improvement to reduce the disparity between melee and ranged to an extent.
Though, melee is not AS bad as OP pointed out which he has never posted again, despite having an opportunity or two to post back with more feedback. This was more of stirring up the hornet's nest, one of the reason why he got probated. /sarcasm Melee and range certainly has their dangerous moments, and melee do get them more often. In my case, I cannot tell much of a difference at times since more or less the death ratio are very close, with melee having a bit more. There are map mods, that even as ranged evasion, I would avoid just for the precaution. It is not the lack of confidence, it is I might get overconfident with the build. Non-evasion ranged builds have a much higher risk because they lack the beauty of evasion (dodge/spell dodge + ondar + Heart of Oak), so AA + IC is usually the way to go. However, I only have like 2 out of the 4 non-evasion ranged builds that uses AA, and non that uses IC because I do not like using IC as ranged. You can say I am handicapping myself. The other two builds are at risk of getting rekted hard by a pack of blue devourers (with crit or extra damage) in a map with more magic monsters, + monster pack size, and any damage modifiers. Not only that, if the map bosses are stubborn, I may run the risk at getting killed. Even then, I do not die often, I just need kite way more often than normal. For the most part, they lack armor AND evasion. As melee, I have gone down the armor path and the evasion path, and if I get enough that along with other defenses, the stuff that my non-evasion ranged builds have issues dealing, these guys can deal without too much issues. Obviously, this is all subjective. Objectively, it is a universal fact, be it fantasy or real life, that 99.999999% of the time, range will be always be better. That is why I do not tend to look at this subject objectively, because in the end, I will always see it as ranged > melee....and there is no fun in that. PS: Duelist needs more love, it is my favorite class in the game dialogue-wise with Shadow coming at a close second. I will not deny that Duelist's starting point is pretty meh. Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game. - raics, 06.08.2016 Dernière édition par JohnNamikaze#6516, le 29 déc. 2014 à 22:34:34
|
|
