Melee is the worst bullshit ever in poe

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

Also the two of you stroking each other aren't actually accomplishing anything or saying anything relevant here.

The ladders do a good job at indicating class performance, I'm sorry you don't feel that way but it's reality.

Lol the ladders prove absolutely nothing but one class has had more changes then another. Doesn't have anything to do with the viability of a class\skill\whatever bullshit you want to make it into.

As for classes, they significantly changed the duelist starting area, something most people don't like. I personally think it should be more in similar to the ranger area then it is now, now your forced into awkward nodes for a few levels or skip them and waste points on stat nodes to get out of the starting area, this is poor class design, but doesn't have anything to do with the "viability' of melee in 1.3.

I wish I was creative enough to use the ladders and twist this against you, but I am not, nor do I care to try and argue with someone that follows the ladder with any amount of weight. The top of the ladder 1-20 or so are probably the only ones really competing, everyone else is just playing the game, considering there are 7 classes some of which are stronger at certain things and at different times, you can't simply say templar is OP, look at all the people on the top of the ladder. I mean they did just change the templar area, for the most part making him significantly better for builds going into his area.



But lets end this with lol your wrong the ladder doesn't lie, GGG melee still sux I can't beat dominus with him. /s

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goetzjam a écrit :

My opinion is more important than reality

OK, cool. But my opinion is that you're wrong. So instead of giving a damn about our opinions, how about we turn to something objective? Like say, maybe ladder performance? Pick an objective measure of your choosing.

Also, you seem to have trouble differentiating between class selection and class performance. They are different things.

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

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Peterlerock a écrit :

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

No, you're perfectly entitled to have your opinion, it just doesn't mean anything. What matters is the actual results on the ladder. All I need to do is point to duelist on bloodlines ladder and I autowin this debate.

Someone did some nice graphs and showed that of all classes, about half are still alive, half are dead.

The absolute numbers show preferences of players. Or the fact that it's easier and cheaper to roll a caster in a fresh league.
They don't tell anything about the balance of playstyles (relevant for this debate).

That's why you move the bracket up and look at performance in higher levels relative to selection.

That's why we change the parameters until we get the result we wanted?

All classes die in this game. Some are more popular than others, but in the end, they all die.
And the more you reduce the sample size, the less you can "prove".

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

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goetzjam a écrit :

My opinion is more important than reality

OK, cool. But my opinion is that you're wrong. So instead of giving a damn about our opinions, how about we turn to something objective? Like say, maybe ladder performance? Pick an objective measure of your choosing.

Also, you seem to have trouble differentiating between class selection and class performance. They are different things.

Nice quoting me on stuff I didn't say, please fix your quote.

As for the ladder it appears that no one else cares about it but you, please lets see where you are on the ladder?

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torturo a écrit :

Melees are extremely powerful at high levels, geared to the teeth. Overgeared melees can rush a map like no other.
There are just some tiny little problems:
-requires several hundreds of exalts in gear; could be OP only in Standard for 99.99% of the player base (where deaths doesn't matter anyway)
-can still fail bad in some rare situations, where ranged will make it up with ease

Melee is not noob friendly.
Isn't a good choice for a fresh start; gear dependent.
Is a dangerous play style in HC, due to the nature of the game - desync, severe damage spikes, presence of ridiculous difficulty spikes (Minara in a high map, anyone?).

Yeah I couldn't have said it better myself, Melee's are actually ridiculously powerful (due to DPS scaling on epic rolls on melee weapons) when you are uber geared. Up until that point though, you have problems

the whole ladder thing is meaningless, Ranger is the best life based melee start on the tree, witch is the best ci melee start (imo, could argue shadow, youre wrong but you could argue it :D). duelists on the hardcore ladder proves absolutely nothing other than duelist is not the best start for virtually any serious specialized build.


Opinions are fine if you have actually played a range of melee characters in endgame and your opinion is based on actual experience. We are not talking about our favourite colour here, we are talking about melee and how it functions in endgame. People who actually have 100s of hours experience of playing melee in endgame can just talk about the facts they know from experience and that is the only meaningful discussion to be had.


You cant sit there with one lvl72 character and preach about legitimate data. At lvl72 you are getting 100% experience from a lvl66 map because that is where the game expects your character to be. What exactly are you basing your position on? Nothing of any substance that is for sure.


Case in point, does melee work or is it bad? I have melee characters that work and are ridiculously op. Thats it, entire discussion over. If you dont have melee characters like mine then sorry your characters are bad its nothing to do with melee in general. Its like having a conversation about if cats can jump, guy A says his cat never jumps he thinks they cant, guy B has 3 cats and none of them have ever jumped, he also thinks cats cant jump. Guy C has 2 cats and they both jump, there we go, it is proven cats can jump, end of story. Guys A and B might have cats that cant jump, but that is just their cats and obviously doesnt apply to cats in general. Legatus you dont even have a cat and you are telling guys whos cats are jumping in front of them at this very moment that cats cant jump.


I cant say all melee chars work because I havent played all melee chars. You cant say all melee chars dont work because you havent played them all. I can say for sure that there are many melee chars that do work because I have played them, thats the end of the discussion for any logical person.

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Peterlerock a écrit :

That's why we change the parameters until we get the result we wanted?

All classes die in this game. Some are more popular than others, but in the end, they all die.
And the more you reduce the sample size, the less you can "prove".

Lol, that's like saying population studies don't show anything because you reduced the sample size from 7b people to 100k. This is how all studies are done.

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deteego a écrit :

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torturo a écrit :

Melees are extremely powerful at high levels, geared to the teeth. Overgeared melees can rush a map like no other.
There are just some tiny little problems:
-requires several hundreds of exalts in gear; could be OP only in Standard for 99.99% of the player base (where deaths doesn't matter anyway)
-can still fail bad in some rare situations, where ranged will make it up with ease

Melee is not noob friendly.
Isn't a good choice for a fresh start; gear dependent.
Is a dangerous play style in HC, due to the nature of the game - desync, severe damage spikes, presence of ridiculous difficulty spikes (Minara in a high map, anyone?).

Yeah I couldn't have said it better myself, Melee's are actually ridiculously powerful (due to DPS scaling on epic rolls on melee weapons) when you are uber geared. Up until that point though, you have problems

Same for bow, only not melee

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goetzjam a écrit :

As for the ladder it appears that no one else cares about it but you, please lets see where you are on the ladder?

I ripped 5 times on my main (1 my fault, 3 desync, 1 CTD to standard) so I'm past the 15k mark and haven't started farming yet this ladder. Melee. And you? I see you've made it to level 9, gratz.

Can we go back to things that are relevant now?