Why is Trading so Hated?

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Vincendra a écrit :

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iamstryker a écrit :

I still wonder what the game would be like if you couldn't trade orbs....

Have you ever heard of Stone of Jordan?

E: Bet in POE you could swap SOJ for Andvarius

+1000 LOL SoJ for Andvarius, that's fucking brilliant. 11 thumbs up.

Because crafting - read gambling.

I like crafting (not gambling) more as trading.

I don't hate trading. I hate shitty trade systems in conjunction with shitty drops. If you want me to trade for gear, give me proper in-game tools to do so. If not, let my loot hunt be rewarding.

Its not too hated in the actual game. Sure people dislike the spamfest that is trade channel, but you can deal with that by simply giving a competitive price to sell fast.

On the forums is a different story. Everything is hyperbole hatered, game crippling , GGG are devils trying to kill the game etc.

Anyone who thinks item flipping being something specific to PoE is an idiot. Middle men (merchants, flippers, etc) make massive profits in every game with trade and real life economies too. Usually companies that resell stuff make more money than the companies that actually make the products.

@Splift

Valid point, forums have been bitter as of late. Kinda sad I only joined the community so recently.
And yeah item flipping happens in all games with a market, happened a lot in realm of the mad god and runescape when I played those. I'm sure you older fellows out there can name some others.

@BackwoodsS

Your logic is impeccable. +1 to you

@A variety of other people

Drops ain't that shitty, just depends on what you expect. I expect bi res gear with life. I am overjoyed by the drop rates, it is more than I expected. and crafting isn't that bad either. Albeit crafting weapons can get problematic, armors aren't that hard. alt until you get life/es as prefix, resist as suffix, and regal to hope for the best, only takes a few tries to regal something nice. 5 linking isn't terrible if you start with a 6s drop you find, I've done it 4 times now, and you know how relatively poor i am XD.
But yes, one thing I can say is that crafting weapons, especially staves, wands and daggers takes quite a lot of effort. As of yet this can be easily bypassed by simply building around the first great weapon you find. But in all seriousness, some more vendor recipe handicaps for mid-grade weapon crafting would be appreciated.

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HasuKishi a écrit :

Hello forum base of Path of Exile, I have a question that will most definitely lead to total derailment, flaming, trolling and utter rage. I am not expecting this thread to last long. But, perhaps there will be a chance that someone, somewhere can answer my question in a sensible fashion. My hopes are high.

The question is in the title. Why on earth does it seem that trading is so hated? Time and tiem again I see forum posts complaining about trading gated content, rallies for self found leagues and vehement hatred for the trading system as a whole.

Now I'm not some trading elitest. I own no more than 10 exalts of stuff, mostly from chaos recipe and the occasional drop (Maligaro's virtuosity and a couple exalts were my notables these leagues.) My achievements are the strongbox, corrupt area and vendor recipe ones, so not much to speak of there either. But I just love the trading aspect! I don't flip or market abuse because that's not my forte, but the trading concept as a whole is something I love. I trade for basic stuff: decent weapons, bi res gear, key uniques (bought a 5l WoE recently, for example), etc.

Aside from my love of the trading system, why do so many other hate it? is it because they just wish it was self found? Are the jealous of the rich? Did they get a bad trade and are no bitte about it? I honestly don;t know the answer here.

Because Chris and team come out with ridiculous qoutes about how the game is about build diversity and killing monsters etc. But balance to the opposite ie. In his lol botw claim about snapshotting "think about all the time wasted into setting this up that should be spent having fun killing monsters" I paraphrased, but they will come out and say that they want people to spend time on trading etc... which is it Chris ? Kill monsters and have fun or waste time?
They want the game to be played a certain way (groups, trading, classes) and people find ways to play differently so ggg randomly go in and change the game to make it harder or impossible not too play the way they want you to.
I don't mind basic trading at all, in facti enjoy it.
What I don't like is Chris channeling his big brother Jay Wilson and trying to force people to have fun the proper way. It didn't work well for Jay and his game and it won't work out well for poe either.

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b15h09 a écrit :

I don't hate trading. I hate shitty trade systems in conjunction with shitty drops. If you want me to trade for gear, give me proper in-game tools to do so. If not, let my loot hunt be rewarding.

Yep. Exactly this.

I think it's becuse most people who play this game including suporters simply do not understand it's a ARPG and not a MMO.

Therfore they do not understand how the trading in a game like this OR crafting system works. To make matters worse they seem to have this mind set that games should "bend to thare will " and they want to "fix" things that are not broken.


Content is NOT gated behind GG or BiS gear , it's a myth that u NEED a 6 link or a top grade uniqu item to make a character build . People can't see past thare noses about this topic so they decide " well only way to get 150 ex worth of gear is to min/max the trading game " " so even though i hate that part of the game i will spend all my time on it " then they rage cuz they get board ( or half the time fail at it )

evrey 1` having a BiS item is a MMO thing NOT a fucking ARPG thing , same thing with crafting it's set up so over time with smart imput the output becomes predictable and steady. People just can't get thare heads around this. And people fear what they don't understand ... and gamers rage and what to change what they don't understand.

The thing that really makes me fall off my chair laughfing is that offten the same people who coplain about power creep , forced focouse on trading , and the need for BiS gear are the same people who are creating a situation whare this could become true.


Last night i think this really jumped out at me and hit me in the face .. twice. First off i was in a party with my RM marader character , 1 of the players ( i later found out was a dimond suporter ) started to rage that i had a OP build cuz i use a khoams heart chest .... well i don't use a khomas heart chest . So i explaned to him that not only do u not need a khoms to make a build like this do alot of damage but that running a koams had a few draw backs for the build . Well the fight was on , acording to him RF maraders coast 100 + ex to make work ( even though this paticular RF Marader im running has about a total of 10 EX worth of gear ( including a legacy shild ) The guy had his mind made up thare was no changing it.

Next i was trading some fusings ... a player purched 80 off me ... then 80 more ... then 80 more. I noticed the character was level 82 i asked him what he was trying to link. Well he was trying to 6 link a fucking lightning coil , and he had destroyed 3 5 links with my fusings he purched in the atempt to get a 6 link. So i said to him " hey man if u are trying to 6 link a coil ... stop when u get a 5 link sell it buy another coil and try again this way u save money and it makes getting a 6 link cheaper " . Well the rude crazy ness started first he said that no 1 would buy a 5 link coil cuz to use a coil u need it to be 6 linked ???????? is he a fucking moron !!!! next he told me that PoE was stupid and he has "wasted" 8 ex tring to 6 link this chest and that he was quiting Poe. I told him that any decent item 6 linked is worth about 10 ex as a minnimum cuz it takes about that much to 6 link


So lets break down what this idiot was doing . First off he was trying to copy a build from the fourm , nothing wrong with that , but he was trying to get the GG gear the fourm build player had and some how could not make it work with anything less ( in his mind ) . Secound he was totaly out to lunch about the coast that doing this would be so he set himself up for a let down before he ever started . Third he was he was handicaping himself with not trying to reach his goal in a smart way insted he was going full retard in a vain atempt to get a GG item cuz he thoguht ( i can't progress any more till i have a 6 link ) I mean what can i say to a person like this ?? i tryed to help him but Noooooo it's his hard way or nothing. I hope he quits and never comes back.

People like this are the folks u see bitching on the fourm about crafting / trading they are to stuborn to learn , and flat out refuse to try to use the systems to thare advantage , insted they try to get thare goals in the most difficult and risky way posible then complain when they fail.

This is why we see people crying about the trading system , this is why we see people shying away from the crafting system ( they have incorect information ) I would say as a community we should try to help these people learn how to avoid thare mistakes but i think it is folly to try . They won`t change.

I just pray GGG dose not let these QQ players change thare core desine of poe , let the ragers rage.

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H4T3MONG3R a écrit :

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HasuKishi a écrit :

-snip-

Because Chris and team come out with ridiculous qoutes about how the game is about build diversity and killing monsters etc. But balance to the opposite ie. In his lol botw claim about snapshotting "think about all the time wasted into setting this up that should be spent having fun killing monsters" I paraphrased, but they will come out and say that they want people to spend time on trading etc... which is it Chris ? Kill monsters and have fun or waste time?
They want the game to be played a certain way (groups, trading, classes) and people find ways to play differently so ggg randomly go in and change the game to make it harder or impossible not too play the way they want you to.
I don't mind basic trading at all, in fact I enjoy it.
What I don't like is Chris channeling his big brother Jay Wilson and trying to force people to have fun the proper way. It didn't work well for Jay and his game and it won't work out well for poe either.

I'm not quite sure, but these seems like more of a post arguing for snapshotting instead of a post about trading. I'd gladly talk to you about snapshotting on a different thread, but I made this one to discuss trading and why it is hated, or at least seems to be by the forum community. If you do make a thread about it, send me a message and I'll gladly jump into the fray.

And waste time? That's all a matter of opinion my dear sir. His word choice was sloppy yes, that I can agree with.

As for that bolded section:
a) not sure what Jay has to do with this. I had to look up who he was in fact, didn't know Chris had a brother XD.
b) Oh dear your supposed to play a game the way it was intended? Sorry but that seems like a silly thing to argue. But who am I to judge, whatever floats your boat. Could I recommend Dungeons and Dragons to ya? You can take the game and make anything you want out of it, even change the rules! Infinite possibility, I highly suggest it (talking about the pen and paper version, not DDO)

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SirSid a écrit :

-snip-

That was a nice read, and I think you hit the nail on the head for a lot of them. I've noticed this a fair bit too.

~~~STORYTIME~~~

So here I was, level 80, dual incinerate totem (before its second nerf), in the gab between domination and ambush. Having a grand ol time with one of my friends in the guild i had just recently created. He was one of those elite trading people. He had 2 mirrored items on his character, and a 6l shavs, among other things. We ran a crematorium. He was cyclone CoC, level 87. The boss came up. He died 3 times straight, all for the same reason of he just charged the thing and died. I died once because I had spent 10 chaos at most on the build and only had 3k health.

~~~MORAL~~~

Having so called "BiS" gear does help yes. But even more than that, more than anything else in any good game, the thing that makes you a good player at it is SKILL. If you get good at playing the game, you can make up for a lot of the wealth difference. kite, frost wall, timed vaal skills, movement, flasks, gear switches. The choices are endless. Learning to play the game to the fullest is key to being able to succeed in it. Getting wealth and stuff does help, but without skill in build design and game playing ability, it'll all be for naught.