Evasion---Hard Counters with nothing to recounter

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Delirii a écrit :

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BTW... after the evasion buff level 79 monsters still have an accuracy rating around 1048. Do you know how much Evasion you need to get to 50% chance to evade? 23,851.

Yeah, takes quite some investment, I agree. But we have Enfeeble. -69% Acc on a 20/20 gem. That's 41% / 34% against bosses. Helps a lot.

Enfeeble and all curses are less effect against bosses. How much has not been revealed yet but it is significant. But for arguments sake lets say it reduces their accuracy by 50%. They now have 524 Accuracy. Thats about the same as a level 64 mob. Guess how much you need for 60% Evasion? 16,580. Soooo... You reduce their accuracy by 50% and to gain to 10% Evasion you still need 2/3 the Evasion. Which I would say that is about what most Evasion users have.

60% Evasion + 30% Dodge + 19% Block = 77% Chance to evade... 23% Chance to be hit.


About blind. What people dont realize about blind is that it reduces a mobs chance to hit you to 1/4 what it would normally be by evasion. If you have Unwavering Stance you will ALWAYS bet hit as you can never evade.

If Blinded the math would work out this way. 60% Evasion = 40% chance to hit. 1/4 of 40% = 10%.

60% Evasion + Blind = 90% Evasion + 30% Dodge + 19% Block = 95% chance to avoid damage.. 5% chance to be hit. The magical cap. But what does this mean? Insert "Streakness Preventer"... You walk into a room with mobs that have multiple projectiles and you will still be hit 1 out of 20 shots. Anyone tried to count how many shots come out of a group of tentacled miscreations? I've counted 3 salvos for each arm. Multiple Projectiles = 3 shots each salvo. Packs come in groups of 3. 3*3*3 = 27. Guaranteed hit. Even with Ondars Guile since it caps at 95% Evasion chance. Lets not forget that Even if you block you check for a stun hit and since you have low life.. guess what.. Stunned.

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Bishop120 a écrit :

60% Evasion + Blind = 90% Evasion + 30% Dodge + 19% Block = 95% chance to avoid damage.. 5% chance to be hit. The magical cap. But what does this mean? Insert "Streakness Preventer"... You walk into a room with mobs that have multiple projectiles and you will still be hit 1 out of 20 shots. Anyone tried to count how many shots come out of a group of tentacled miscreations? I've counted 3 salvos for each arm. Multiple Projectiles = 3 shots each salvo. Packs come in groups of 3. 3*3*3 = 27. Guaranteed hit. Even with Ondars Guile since it caps at 95% Evasion chance. Lets not forget that Even if you block you check for a stun hit and since you have low life.. guess what.. Stunned.

The magical cap for Evasion is 95% BEFORE Block/Dodge. Block and Dodge are true random.

Ergo: You walk into a room evasion capped, 1 in 20 shots now 56.7% Chance to hit you. Nevermind that you're assuming tha tthe split damage type projectiles are dealing enough damage to guarantee a stun (meaning they would have to deal greater than 50% of your health) when in reality they've got somewhere around a 30% chance to stun (ignoring any stun reduction you may have).

So 1 in 40 hits actually hit you. With a 1/3 (maybe) chance of stunning you. Thanks for making sure to completely misrepresent your information.

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Enfeeble and all curses are less effect against bosses. How much has not been revealed yet but it is significant. But for arguments sake lets say it reduces their accuracy by 50%. They now have 524 Accuracy. Thats about the same as a level 64 mob. Guess how much you need for 60% Evasion? 16,580. Soooo... You reduce their accuracy by 50% and to gain to 10% Evasion you still need 2/3 the Evasion. Which I would say that is about what most Evasion users have.

60% Evasion + 30% Dodge + 19% Block = 77% Chance to evade... 23% Chance to be hit.

I already mentioned that curses are 40%/50% less effective on bosses. For official GGG statement have a look at 0.10.8c patch notes.

19% chance to block is really bad for an evasion character. Make that at least 35%, seems more reasonable to me.
Yeah, 16.5k evasion might be an average value, but not bad at all.

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Packs come in groups of 3. 3*3*3 = 27. Guaranteed hit. Even with Ondars Guile since it caps at 95% Evasion chance. Lets not forget that Even if you block you check for a stun hit and since you have low life.. guess what.. Stunned.

Again. Evasion characters do not have low life. Yeah, if you don't care about survivability at all you'll die fast, but that applies to every build. But since the Ranger got some pretty awesome life/evasion nodes now, you can reach good life values. You get stun avoidance and stun recovery there as well.
And well, those enemies deal low damage, but at a high attack speed. I've yet to be stunned by them.

im a lvl 62 ranger , i have 8 k evasion ( 60 % ), i have acrobatics + phase acrobatics
a lvl 60 white mob with resistant to elemental dmg come to me and hits me 3 times in a row

evasion as it is now the only thing it does is making u nearly immune to projectile attacks ( OC ) because if u stay in melee range u still will die in 3-4 hits
( which is not that bad since u are ranged but still frustrating )

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Autocthon a écrit :

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Bishop120 a écrit :

60% Evasion + Blind = 90% Evasion + 30% Dodge + 19% Block = 95% chance to avoid damage.. 5% chance to be hit. The magical cap. But what does this mean? Insert "Streakness Preventer"... You walk into a room with mobs that have multiple projectiles and you will still be hit 1 out of 20 shots. Anyone tried to count how many shots come out of a group of tentacled miscreations? I've counted 3 salvos for each arm. Multiple Projectiles = 3 shots each salvo. Packs come in groups of 3. 3*3*3 = 27. Guaranteed hit. Even with Ondars Guile since it caps at 95% Evasion chance. Lets not forget that Even if you block you check for a stun hit and since you have low life.. guess what.. Stunned.

The magical cap for Evasion is 95% BEFORE Block/Dodge. Block and Dodge are true random.

Ergo: You walk into a room evasion capped, 1 in 20 shots now 56.7% Chance to hit you. Nevermind that you're assuming tha tthe split damage type projectiles are dealing enough damage to guarantee a stun (meaning they would have to deal greater than 50% of your health) when in reality they've got somewhere around a 30% chance to stun (ignoring any stun reduction you may have).

So 1 in 40 hits actually hit you. With a 1/3 (maybe) chance of stunning you. Thanks for making sure to completely misrepresent your information.

The evasion messiah has spoken

ok, theorycrafters! I like your maths, but could you help me?

lvl 84 Cyclone and flicker strike build, evade chance around 55%, Block chance 49%, 78% all ress, 2990 life around 400 dex(acc 85%), str. 186.

I have all these nods: acrobatics + phase acrobatics (6 points)+OG (3 points)+ Revenge of the Hunted(6 lvls) all my gear has life except gloves.

Tell me, how to kill Jungle valley boss(72 lvl) - new Weaver Spider. His EK almost one shot me
Or how to kill simple Ambusher boss from Reef map (68lvl) with greater multiple projectiles mod?

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Damac0101 a écrit :

lvl 84 Cyclone and flicker strike build, evade chance around 55%, Block chance 49%, 78% all ress, 2990 life around 400 dex(acc 85%), str. 186.

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2990 life

Ahem. Use Decoy or Skeleton Totem to change the bosses focus. Apart from that theres no really much you can do since I assume that you already use blind, which wouldnt do much about the EK though.

The problem basically is your low health that is really prone to burst damage so unless you make the boss not attack YOU in the first place or get some spellblock theres no much you can do.

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Damac0101 a écrit :

ok, theorycrafters! I like your maths, but could you help me?

lvl 84 Cyclone and flicker strike build, evade chance around 55%, Block chance 49%, 78% all ress, 2990 life around 400 dex(acc 85%), str. 186.

I have all these nods: acrobatics + phase acrobatics (6 points)+OG (3 points)+ Revenge of the Hunted(6 lvls) all my gear has life except gloves.

Tell me, how to kill Jungle valley boss(72 lvl) - new Weaver Spider. His EK almost one shot me
Or how to kill simple Ambusher boss from Reef map (68lvl) with greater multiple projectiles mod?

respec

drop acrobatics, phase acrobatics, OG, and evasion nodes

get IR, 60-75% block, and more life nodes (run tempest shield along with grace and determination if you can)

SOL amu would be very nice vs his EK ... but make sure to enfeeble him. Also get a chaos flask as unmodded he does 1k physi / 1k chaos with his normal attack.

As soon as you enter the room, pop enfeeble and granite and enduring cry, and run up to the spiders to avoid as many flickers as you can ... they flicker from far away not close. DO NOT KITE AS YOU WILL ONLY DIE QUICKER

Im not even joking or trolling, max block / armor / hp is the best for melee (non VP CI ofc)

Evasion sucks, it leads to low hp as in your case, and also acrobatics = 50% less armor = more one shots. you can have max block, its enough avoidance, then you need actual mitigation. And spell block >>>> spell dodge vs his ek

EDIT: Why do you have problems vs gmp asphyxia? doesnt she deal cold snap which isnt a projectile?

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Damac0101 a écrit :

Tell me, how to kill Jungle valley boss(72 lvl) - new Weaver Spider. His EK almost one shot me
Or how to kill simple Ambusher boss from Reef map (68lvl) with greater multiple projectiles mod?

There is one common mod in those uniques ;)

Evasion is definitely viable - however to work well it needs to be built in conjunction with high block and high life. I made a guide around an evasion melee Ranger, and hope this helps anyone interested in an evasion melee build:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/503727

I've done many high level maps on my poor life pool of 2.6K (low, I know), but the build is very viable. You are immune to lightning thorns, reflect, and projectiles (i.e. no need to run and hide from Piety's ice arrows).

The only trouble you have is from high burst damage, and that is where having a large life pool helps. However, as seen from the various videos I posted, evasion can be made to work and scales well.

Regarding the 2x Weaver fight - I actually had more trouble with the EK bursts, and less from the flicker spiders. I think this is because the EK burst does high chaos and physical damage - which hurt a lot due to my low chaos resistance. However with high spell block, the fight is definitely doable - I dodged/blocked 9EKs, and took 6EKs from which I quickly regenerated back to full life.