Why does reave not work properly with Dual wield?

If Cleave is considered OP, then have even more reduced damage on this, just have the option to use both weapons at once. No one wants to alternate attacks.

Dual wielding suffers from a convergence of game mechanics that directly discourage it.

Both the way damage reduction from armor is calculated, as well as the way skill mana cost is determined, strongly favor fewer stronger hits over more weaker hits.

Dual-wielding is also more expensive to reach an acceptable standard for equipment. The way the crafting system works makes it cheaper to get one good 2hander than two good 1handers. The same goes for crafting a shield versus crafting an offhand weapon, because shields have a much smaller range of junk affixes, particularly when running Resolute Technique.

Dual wielding does provide some defense in the form of block chance, but this is only cost-effectively supported by two notables: Dervish and Weapon Artistry, while the latter also works with shields.

The balance of offense and defense that dual wielding offers is inadequate outside of the two skills that "work" with dual wielding, cleave and dual strike, because for every weapon-alternating skill the expense required to obtain a second endgame-worthy 1hander is grossly out of sync with the benefits it offers. Cleave and Dual Strike are far more forgiving of a below-grade offhand weapon, and unsurprisingly are mandatory for any viable dual wielding build.

If GGG truly believe that alternating weapons is sufficient to accommodate dual wielding, and Cleave truly is a mistake that has been allowed to stand, than we will continue to see every dual wielding build start and stop at cleave and dual strike. Dual wielding cannot function without these two skills, but they are so powerful that dual wielding cannot be fairly improved much without weakening them either.

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LimitedRooster a écrit :

So... daggers and rapiers at least give you global multiplier and chance. That's at least a something.

But claws. What justification is there for dual wielding claws? I can't even think up of a goofy edge case scenario here.

Leech? I may be wrong, don't know if it's global or not.

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Mark_GGG a écrit :

For the record, discussing and debating how strong the bonuses currently for dual wielding are and if they need increased is fine and good.

Insisting that dual wield in general, or this skill, should have double DPS, is unlikely to be productive, as that causes severe balance issues, as noted and explained in the threads I linked earlier.

Mark, we just want Dual Wielding to be nearly as good as the 1h/shield combo. Nobody here even mentioned doing double damage.

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TiltedAxis a écrit :

I'm not asking for a buff.. im asking for more than a a single fking skill that scales with dual wielding... like why even bother dual wielding ever?

Some of us play for fun. Not stats.

Yeah, I don't think anyone was expecting double damage. I was expecting a penalty at least as severe as cleave has, but I was expecting the skill to attack with both weapons when you took the time to specifically point out that it worked with dual wielding in the reveal announcement.

You guys had to know how misleading that would be.

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Kettch a écrit :

This is incredibly disappointing. Why did you bother to state the skill works with dual wielding on its reveal if this is what you were going for? By this definition, everything works with dual wielding unless it requires a 2-hander.

this is the point u need to be focusing on. u lead us to believe that reave was going to be another cleave/dual strike yet said nothing to inform us otherwise.

alternating weapons is straight up stupid and i feel as though skills should be single target or dual...inbetween

is a fence ppl dont like to ride on.

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Kettch a écrit :

Yeah, I don't think anyone was expecting double damage. I was expecting a penalty at least as severe as cleave has, but I was expecting the skill to attack with both weapons when you took the time to specifically point out that it worked with dual wielding in the reveal announcement.

You guys had to know how misleading that would be.

seems like im not the only one that is on the same page...

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Anonan a écrit :

Both the way damage reduction from armor is calculated, as well as the way skill mana cost is determined, strongly favor fewer stronger hits over more weaker hits.

Let's be fair here. The faster one handed weapons gain massively more from flat +damage.

+30 and +150% physical damage:

Lion Sword: ~360 dps
Jeweled Foil: ~285 dps

So a one handed physical weapon is roughly 80% as strong as a two-hander. (If you've got good top-tier affixes.) And dual wielding it would give you ~88%, which goes a long way to explaining the "10% more is enough" fetish some people have.

When you take into consideration that every character is running a rainbow slurry of auras and ring DPS, dropping an elemental bukkake everywhere... well it's realistic to think that two handers are dead last in most layouts.

There's a number of things a bit off about all this, but I'll try to focus on the ones that haven't been done to death:

* Normalization isn't completely evil just because it became popular in modern era games. It certainly makes more sense than having Incinerate Totems be twice as strong as Flame Totems for one fifth the mana.

* A power differential of 80% versus 100% is nothing in a Diablo clone. This isn't Monster Hunter, where one fight can go on for half an hour.

My platonic ideal would be closer to ~60/80/100 rather than 80/90/100... but the numbers only really matter to the spergiest of spergs, like this guy ---------->

What most players care about is how playing makes them feel. Two handers are probably getting screwed worse than anyone, but there isn't a contingent of folks here on the forum that complain about it on the regular. And that's because their art assets are doing what the players want them to do: smash things with big slow meaty hits.

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Kettch a écrit :

You guys had to know how misleading that would be.

It isn't misleading. There are skills that do not work with dual wielding. Like Double Strike. Uses only the mainhand weapon.

This alternates weapons. Which is what they want dual wielding to do. Which means this works with dual wielding.

It's like asking for the skill to hit twice, because Double Strike does. Or launch projectiles, because Lightning Strike does. Attacking with both weapons is part of the Dual Strike SKILL, not part of dual WIELDING in general.

And the 10% attack bonus is a lot better than some of you give it credit for. It's multiplicative, meaning it is always a 10% increase. 10% in the tree is only a 10% increase when going from 0->10