finally realised just how worthless armour is

"

thepmrc a écrit :

False. You can take evasion passives and take health passives.

Health without mitigation is useless. Mitigation without health is useless. Seems pretty straight forward.

Why is HP being a necessary stat so troubling to people?

You can take evasion/armor passives, but the fact that HP will be more effective overall.
If you have +5k HP, you simply don't die against normal mobs. When armor is only useful against normal mobs which hit very very less and you wouldn't anyway die against them, then why would you take armor passives?
Evasion is better than armor, as it is good against big hits. Sadly, you will get enough evasion only from armors and you don't want to waste 15-20 points to get it more reasonable level.

Health without mitigation isn't useless. Do you even play the game? All mitigation you need will come from armors, not from passives.

I had a character with 13.6k armor, flasks which increased 90% armor and ofc granites too. Well, two shotted by brutus in 67lvl map with 3k HP at 70lvl. So, only good mitigation is endurance charges as they decreases physical damage by 5%.


"We don't want anyone to face tank, oh wait.. we forgot melee characters.... - GGG"

"

Volcciss a écrit :

"

thepmrc a écrit :

False. You can take evasion passives and take health passives.

Health without mitigation is useless. Mitigation without health is useless. Seems pretty straight forward.

Why is HP being a necessary stat so troubling to people?

You can take evasion/armor passives, but the fact that HP will be more effective overall.
If you have +5k HP, you simply don't die against normal mobs. When armor is only useful against normal mobs which hit very very less and you wouldn't anyway die against them, then why would you take armor passives?
Evasion is better than armor, as it is good against big hits. Sadly, you will get enough evasion only from armors and you don't want to waste 15-20 points to get it more reasonable level.

Health without mitigation isn't useless. Do you even play the game? All mitigation you need will come from armors, not from passives.

I had a character with 13.6k armor, flasks which increased 90% armor and ofc granites too. Well, two shotted by brutus in 67lvl map with 3k HP at 70lvl. So, only good mitigation is endurance charges as they decreases physical damage by 5%.


"We don't want anyone to face tank, oh wait.. we forgot melee characters.... - GGG"

Yeah I play the game, and I understand the mechanics. I know the shortcomings of armor and evasion, and I know how to maximize their effectiveness. I understand their role in the overall EHP formula. I understand the intrinsic connection between high armor values and endurance charges. I understand that GGG does not want a game where ANY players are able to face tank everything in the game. This means people can't crush all monsters with only pure melee skills, this is a good thing imo.

"

thepmrc a écrit :

This means people can't crush all monsters with only pure melee skills, this is a good thing imo.

But they can with pure ranged and portal dropping skill, and that's horrible.

"

thepmrc a écrit :

I lost ya here. So you want the marauder to trivialize the game and provide an experience that is devoid of challenge. Gotcha.

did a Barbarian trivialize Diablo 2? did a "Warfare" build trivialize Titan Quest? how about a Destroyer in Torchlight?
don't write nonsense.

Diablo 1 wasn't well balanced - the Rogue was terrible PvE, the Sorcerer crushed everything with Mana Shield and Apocalypse, and the Warrior also needed to cast spells to survive later difficulties - but we have come a long way since that ancient patriarch.

maybe you misunderstood what I meant by "face-tanking".
I meant not having to cover-up with a shield, summon totems/minions, or run back and use ranged attacks - because that's not "Marauder". just like a Witch grabbing a pair of swords and Dual-Striking stuff is no "Witch".

enemies that hit hard in close range, and/or have insane close-range modifiers should be possible to "kite" the old-fashioned way: hit, run back, swap skills, close-in and hit again.

the game is just frustrating for armour-based, pure-melee characters beyond Cruel Act 1, when there really is no reason for it to be.

in a well-balanced game, all classes and most builds should hit the exact same wall. be it Cruel or Merciless.

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rephikul a écrit :

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thepmrc a écrit :

This means people can't crush all monsters with only pure melee skills, this is a good thing imo.

But they can with pure ranged and portal dropping skill, and that's horrible.

In addition to this, seeing high level streaming players spam lightning arrow/power siphon as their only skill is pretty much as trivial as you can get, and thats hapenning right now, and im not seeing thepmrc or anyone with his attitude complaining about that

If anything, melee fighting was always much less trivial than ranged fighting, which currently is just spamming a single souped up ranged skill (and occasionally relying on totems when needed)

"

deteego a écrit :

If anything, melee fighting was always much less trivial than ranged fighting, which currently is just spamming a single souped up ranged skill (and occasionally relying on portals when needed)

Fixed. I was introduced to one of Kripp's video earlier today and holy shit he open portals everywhere like a "pro" :|

only me who thinks ~900 hp is very low for act 2 cruel? thats like glass cannon hp

I think the melee intentions were something like this:

* Proper Tank (Armour) -- uses shield for maximum tankiness. Lowest amount of damage spikes, but also probably lowest damage.

* Dodge Tank -- Same as above, except uses Evasion w/ Acrobatics, Arrow Dodging, Phase Acrobatics, to completely avoid damage. Somewhat susceptible to damage spikes.

* Vampiric -- uses life leech / life on hit to tank. High susceptibility to lots of damage spikes in a row.

* Hit-And-Run -- Builds that use stuff like Flicker Strike and Leap Slam to get in, deal damage, get out. Typically Evasion builds because equipment base Armour stat penalizes movement speed.

And we also have the separation between STR, DEX, and INT:
- STR increases physical damage. The STR side has the most pure physical damage buffs, as well as most of the increases to Life and Life-On-Hit/Life Leeching.
- DEX increases accuracy. The DEX side has the most further increases to accuracy and attack speed, as well as further increases to movement speed (as Armour reduces that).
- INT is in-between the two sides for melee, as well as best access to nodes that increase critical strike (and the INT weapons have the highest rate of critical strikes), and increasing spell damage.

Now, Viper Strike is there for DEX to help ensure the monsters don't regenerate health between hit-and-run strikes, and even while a Dodge Tank is recouping from a damage spike, but in STR, there's nothing like Viper Strike AFAIK that can easily inhibit enemy health regeneration.

Looking at the tree again, what I think they were intending, is something like:

Duelist
Specialty: Hybrid DEX/STR (quick-but-low melee damage)
- Dodge Tank + Two-Hander
- Dual Wield + Ranged (Bow, Flicker Strike)
Note: Maybe Totems; Frenzy or Endurance

Shadow
Specialty: Hybrid DEX/INT
- Dodge/ES Tank + Dual Wield Vampiric
- Dual Wield + Ranged (Spells and/or Bow and/or Wand)
- Ranged (Spells or Wands)
Note: Maybe Minions; Frenzy or Power Siphon

Templar
Specialty: Hybrid INT/STR
- Armour/ES Tank + Two-Hander or Spells
- Ranged (Spells or Wands)
- Dual Wield Ranged (Wands)
Note: Maybe Minions and/or Totems; Power Siphon or Endurance

Marauder
Specialty: STR-based melee damage (slow-but-high melee damage)
- Armour Tank + Two-Hander
- Two-Handed Vampiric
- Weird-ass Ranged Totem Build
Note: Endurance

Witch
Specialty: Spells (INT-based ranged damage)
- Dual Wield Ranged (Wands)
- Spells
- Minions
Note: Power Siphon

Ranger
Specialty: DEX-based ranged damage
- Ranged (Bow)
- Ranged Vampiric
- Some melee builds w/ Bow (less melee, more bow)
Note: Frenzy

"

I had roughly 870 HP and 150 energy shield

IN CRUEL ????????????

wtf

"

Khastro a écrit :

"

I had roughly 870 HP and 150 energy shield

IN CRUEL ????????????

wtf

My item find summoner had 300 hp and 400 mp after act 1 cruel. Skelly spam solve everything.