Remove Chaos Immunity From Chaos Inoculation

i kinda get what the OP is saying. Why should ES builds be completely immune to a whole damage type giving them easier gearing, ie no need to get chaos resist. The reduction of life to 1 is no big deal since ES is so much easier to get as far as I understand (I'm not a guru, just a dirty casual). Seems silly to me for them to be completely resistant.

+1 because
- immunities are fucked up design
- CI would still be great way to deal with chaos damage (that buffer...) if it simply was applied to ES

+1

One of the main reasons im saying this is if you have any kind of fun in pvp, and you make a chaos/poison build

You have these ci monster tanks who you cant even damage..
Its ridiculous

Then you have the whole problem with immunity and completely not needing to worry about chaos damage..

Whoever thinks that chaos damage isnt big or doesnt deal much obviously has been sipping on that ci koolaid for far too long.

Try some red maps with vuln/desecrate ground

Try killing chaos warbands with vuln/crit etc.


Chaos damage hurts a lot and being able to completely ignore it in regards to pvp/pve is just illogical.


Shavs allows you to go low life while making chaos damage not bypass ES

Ci makes you go to 1 life so claiming an item already exists to do this is stupid.

Ci's 15% more is already enough... immune to chaos damage.. yea okay balanced.

I´ve been suggested this some time ago.
I am against any immunities in the game not only CI but GGG keeps adding new stuff that provides complete immunity (such as Death's Door and bleeding, Atziri or guardian bosses..).
It´s also pain for all PvPers (should be extra balanced)

I would change it like this:

1. Life becomes 1
2. Chaos damage cannot bypass energyshield (with some chaos resist as bonus)

But it should have some advantage against Shav builds (low life builds are OP though but that´s another story)

The only problem I see is described here:

"

Namcap a écrit :

Problem is chaos damage is almost always degen damage. ES doesn't recharge if you take damage, and doesn't regen or leech unless you invest in passives. It would have to come with other changes to make it less punitive while at the same time not make low-life Shav builds even stronger.

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I_NO a écrit :

Yeah thank fucking god they won't listen to you.

CI is a most broken thing in the game, you know?

One of the new rogue exiles use Essense Drain. And he is a scariest thing that I meets in this league. But... CI... Essense drain... that guy do nothing to CI. Great balance.

CI must have resist to chaos, because you pay for that by your life. But immune?
75%/135% capped/uncapped chaos resistance + caos damage does not bypass energy shield - is enough.

Or bring options to have immune to other source of damage.

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DoEFotGS a écrit :

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I_NO a écrit :

Yeah thank fucking god they won't listen to you.

CI is a most broken thing in the game, you know?

One of the new rogue exiles use Essense Drain. And he is a scariest thing that I meets in this league. But... CI... Essense drain... that guy do nothing to CI. Great balance.

CI must have resist to chaos, because you pay for that by your life. But immune?
75%/135% capped/uncapped chaos resistance + caos damage does not bypass energy shield - is enough.

Or bring options to have immune to other source of damage.

Get resists. That ED does nothing. You don't even need as much as elemental.
CI itself is not OP, it's high ES values and instant leech.
If you were to give BM 100% chaos resist it would change nothing, cause BM is just that bad and the downside is super heavy in return for nothing (25% inc max life). You give up most of your auras or ring slots in case of Essence Worms.
OP's suggestion is just horrible. You'd make CI even more OP by giving free shavs out + even more ES. ~ at least 400 base, so anywhere between 2k+ depending on your build.
Capped Chaos reisst (75%) is pretty much immune in regards to the incoming damage. You just don't regen.
There are already options to have immunity-like stuff to other sources. Mods on flasks, some items, Ondar for ranged projectiles.

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OP's suggestion is just horrible. You'd make CI even more OP by giving free shavs out

Yea ur real smart

Free shavs

Life becomes one, chaos does not bypass ES

= Free shavs

"

There are already options to have immunity-like stuff to other sources. Mods on flasks, some items, Ondar for ranged projectiles.

Wat


Comparing immunities to %evasion and mods on flasks/items


10/10

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If you were to give BM 100% chaos resist it would change nothing

Really.... just dont comment anymore

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TwoStonedBrilliance a écrit :

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OP's suggestion is just horrible. You'd make CI even more OP by giving free shavs out

Yea ur real smart

Free shavs

Life becomes one, chaos does not bypass ES

= Free shavs

The specific changes to the keystone are not noted by the OP other than chaos damage does not bypass energy shield, which is basically what shavs is. Keeping the life total of 1, would be more reasonable but still would not address any of the concerns with CI, which are largely that ES simply scales better than life and therefore has not only better itemization (which will be lowered if you are required to itemize chaos resistance) but also better passive point flexibility, which removing chaos immunity would not do.

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TwoStonedBrilliance a écrit :

"

If you were to give BM 100% chaos resist it would change nothing

Really.... just dont comment anymore

Actually, this one is true. Chaos damage is much more of a threat for hybrid or low life builds because chaos damage bypasses ES (blood magic doesn't work well with hybrid because any damage including self induced prevents ES recharge, and while you could do BM LL, I think that is largely a thing of the past). Pure life builds can get away with -60% chaos res for the majority of the game. It's folks with low life totals that rely on ES that get shafted by chaos damage more than anybody else. That being said, you don't need full immunity to for the most part ignore chaos damage, 0% is good enough for most cases, you might want more if you're lowlife without shavs/lorica (yes you can do LL without shavs/lorica, it just requires a little more chaos res, MoM, and a small life flask).

Honestly that change wouldn't even matter for drain tanks, the thing is a lot of builds rely on ES without having high regeneration or leech, so they have to recover ES. And for those builds being vulnerable to chaos degens means that all those tiny degens stop ES recovery.

The issue with CI is that it is mostly balanced for those builds that don't regen or leech massiv amounts and broken for those that do. So changing the Keystone is mostly out of question because it hurts both groups.

The reason why flameblast totems use CI is not so much because it is better, but it fits a lot better with the nodes they get anyway. CI is next to a big crit cluster and the totem crit nodes are right next to another big ES cluster, you just couldn't play as well even with buffed life nodes because there aren't that many around it is just a natural option. And while those builds are strong remove flameblast with shockwave totem and you have a pretty reasonable powerful build.

There are two groups that totally mess up CI balance:

a) Attackers with huge amounts of leech or Spellcasters who somehow get this amount
b) Any build that scales damage with Int (Whispering Ice, HoWA)

Those types of builds remove a big downside from CI and the scaling with Int is good enough that HoWA or Whispering Ice builds could get away with not skilling a single ES node because their Int easily gives them 200-300% increased ES.

Removing the chaos immunity would hurt those builds the most that are currently the weakest. You could bypass that with making the buffer for those builds greater, but that shouldn't be reasonable, because the chaos damage is meaningless for drain tanks and a bigger buffer would just make them even stronger.


Right now there is hardly any big oneshot chaos attacks, because there cannot be due to CI. So Chaos damage usually just adds a bit of damage here and there and a bunch of annoying degens. This means any character that has a high amount of leech and VP can basically ignore chaos damage because it will never oneshot him and given enough damage and leech he is instantly back to full anyway. The chaos immunity only helps CI builds that cannot use leech or heavy amounts of regeneration and rely at least partially on natural ES recovery.

Those HoWA, Blade Vortex or Blade Flurry builds wouldn't give a damn if you remove the Chaos Immunity, it would mostly hurt Summoners, Trappers and Totem builds and I'm not sure that outside a few given skills (iE... Flameblast) those are so incredible powerful, they are all actually pretty balanced (although Trappers seem a bit weak right now).