[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

Just want to put a little adjustment for those people using this build as a league starter in order to build currencies for the character after this one. In the guide this build uses Tidebreaker (expensive!) and as alternative Marohi. As alternative before the Marohi I used the voidhome dreadmaul and that mace feels much better running maps than the Marohi because of several aspects:

Voidmaul has
* +50% attackspeed (as starter this is lovely with Leapslam!)
* manaleech (yay, no early worry about mana flask anymore)
* Marohi has reduced movementspeed, voidmaul not

Negative aspect:
* reduced XP gain (but who cares for a startercharacter)
* reduced rarity (again who cares, only IIQ matters)

Overall while farming it feels much smoother, since most mobs die fast anyway and the total dps on both maces are about equal.

Another little tweak I personally use:
the guide uses multistrike in aoe-clear. This works nicely as long as you don't 1 shot packs. But if you 1 shot packs, than your character stands still for another 2 attacks basically doing nothing. I'm still testing what gem is better to use here, but i feel a gem that increases something like attackspeed (if you use Marohi) or aoe (for other maces) will work better in the end for clearing.

Any ideas?
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Cloud_69 a écrit :
This is an early theory craft of how champion could work with crit and starforge to get much more damage and also stun as well ( crit will shock 100% of time so whenever it shocks consider it a buff in damage that i did not calculate )

Spoiler
This is for single target dps, if we can fix that aoe combo will be no prob at all if flicker strike does not feel to our playstyle

Also each crit hit will do arround 1.1 mil damage that leads to a guaranteed stun for 2 seconds

with 2 seconds stun and 59% crit and 4 attacks per second it will prob lead to stun lock with almost 3 mil dps in total.

Again this is a theory craft and a very draft tree/item variation based on the OP's build.

If someone has time to improve it for a better result it would be great to see a huge purple Sword stunning/melting shaper!

Here is Pob link : https://pastebin.com/L9CK2Hr5



I have been thinking about Champion's viability (with crit) since you messaged me this build before the league launch, and here are a collection of my thoughts:

Suggestions and Calculations:
Spoiler

Passive tree: much more refined than I anticipated. Coldhearted Calculation seems lackluster, but I guess the +20 intelligence is important; stun duration nodes in the stun mastery wheel is important, and should be considered. Otherwise, not much I can point out.

Gems: I think Bloodlust is overall a better choice than Damage on Full Life; you just need to give your totem one Chance to Bleed Support and Bloodlust will be enabled during the boss fight. You currently have no real source of power charge generation, and I suggest linking Frenzy with Increased Critical Strikes and Power Charge on Crit. This way, you need to have a stand-alone Leap Slam setup and I believe you should give up on your 6-link Warchief due to gem socket shortage.

PoB setting: You should select "is the enemy bleeding" and deselect "is the enemy shocked". PoB assumes all shocks to have a maximum of 30% effect, and that's not the case in real fight. Also uncheck Vaal Haste.

PoB output (after making my changes): 1.94 million DPS (100% chance to hit, 35% crit chance, crit lucky, 579% crit multiplier, 95k to 191k hit damage before crit, 3.53 attack per second), 6.6k life, 114% r.E.S.T., 179% increased stun duration.

After inputting these results to my simulation code, I see around 45% chance to stun-lock Shaper. And WTF, I just saw around 90% chance to stun-lock with my Berserker (after removing Stun Support Corruption). I believe it was somewhere near 60%, and due to recent Endurance Charge on Melee Stun buff, it went up from 60% to 90%.

Overall Review
Spoiler

I believe this is the best crit version of this stun build I have seen so far. Great DPS with realistic setup. Unfortunately Tidebreaker is just way better than any other weapon in the boss stunning business; with Starforge, the stun capability is slightly lower.

There is however, this central problem of survivability that we need to address. Due to Abyssus and no way of gaining endurance charges, this version is actually far less tanky than the Berserker version (especially now, as I just changed the build to have 6 endurance charges). As a melee build, this issue needs some more attention as we will occasionally charge into tons of projectiles and surrounding mobs.

There is another minor problem with AoE. People have divided preference regarding Flicker as their clearing skill; the alternative is maybe Sweep? But I don't see Sweep being good as there are no increased AoE from this build.

If we can figure out ways to solve these problems I can see this crit version work out. I will likely test out a crit version myself, but maybe not until a month later.
"
Deadlyshine a écrit :
Just want to put a little adjustment for those people using this build as a league starter in order to build currencies for the character after this one. In the guide this build uses Tidebreaker (expensive!) and as alternative Marohi. As alternative before the Marohi I used the voidhome dreadmaul and that mace feels much better running maps than the Marohi because of several aspects:

Voidmaul has
* +50% attackspeed (as starter this is lovely with Leapslam!)
* manaleech (yay, no early worry about mana flask anymore)
* Marohi has reduced movementspeed, voidmaul not

Negative aspect:
* reduced XP gain (but who cares for a startercharacter)
* reduced rarity (again who cares, only IIQ matters)

Overall while farming it feels much smoother, since most mobs die fast anyway and the total dps on both maces are about equal.

Another little tweak I personally use:
the guide uses multistrike in aoe-clear. This works nicely as long as you don't 1 shot packs. But if you 1 shot packs, than your character stands still for another 2 attacks basically doing nothing. I'm still testing what gem is better to use here, but i feel a gem that increases something like attackspeed (if you use Marohi) or aoe (for other maces) will work better in the end for clearing.

Any ideas?


Yes, Tidebreaker is expensive right now (due to reddit ppl memeing about Tidebreaker Jugg, and the recent ECoMS buff).

I am, however, very surprised to see Voidhome being mentioned as an alternative. Personally I have never thought about this mace (once I said to my friends this is the single worst unique in the game). But I see your point and I agree it might be viable.

I do want to mention some downsides of Voidhome: faster attack speed is destructive to our stun capability, which may bring safety issues during early league mapping (I do admit being slow also causes safety issues). While increased rarity means nothing, reduced rarity actually matters a bit, in early league you want to be seeing uniques, rare jewelries, etc. The mana leech can be obtained quite easily from jewelries and you don't need to rely on mana flasks to begin with.

I actually see it being a good idea to equip Voidhome in off-hand, with a 4-link being Leap Slam + Faster Attacks + Blood Magic + Fortify; just like how people use Brightbeak as a movement 2nd weapon (but cheap?).

Multistrike is used because, if you use Heavy Strike, multistrike auto targets mobs nearby, creating 3 blasts (usually at 3 different directions) near you; you will feel like you have larger AoE due to this effect. If you use Sunder, it auto-targets remaining mobs and saves effort (don't need to target every single mob manually).

Before you're well-geared, there is this problem of low attack speed leading to Multistrike's extra attacks feeling clunky. If you feel you're at a spot when you clear faster and smoother without Multistrike, you can definitely take it out. In end-game we attack pretty fast anyways and you will definitely want to use Multistrike then.

EDIT: forgot to say thanks to your suggestion, I will test Voidhome out.
Dernière édition par brightwaha, le 5 mars 2018 10:26:07
What the heck is going on with tidebreaker priced at 150c shit rolled?!

How on earth will we make currency with low mapping due to excuse of a weapon liek Marohi ?

"
Cloud_69 a écrit :
What the heck is going on with tidebreaker priced at 150c shit rolled?!

How on earth will we make currency with low mapping due to excuse of a weapon liek Marohi ?



Tidebreaker has always been a rare drop, the price was always low because of low demand. Now due to the new ECoMS buff as well as many different asendancies being able to make Tidebreaker builds, the demand went up, making this rare drop very expensive.

Marohi is indeed a pretty bad weapon, and I am thinking about experimenting with different ones to see if there's a good substitute before being able to afford a Tidebreaker.

Currently, number 1 on the list is Kongor's Undying Rage. I believe this is better than Marohi (I did not recommend it initially as the price was high, but currently it's not.)

Number 2 on the list is Brain Rattler. This should work pretty well during early endgame. Number 3 on the list is Jorrhast's Blacksteel. I will test it out soon to see if the Animate Weapon helps or not.

EDIT: I think it's pretty obvious that Kongor's Undying Rage and Brain Rattler are better choices. I have made changes in the guide to recommend these weapons instead. I previously recommended Marohi because I personally started this build with a 4-link Marohi (pseudo 5-link). But as I am also recommending putting the main skill link inside body armour, the main advantage of Marohi isn't used anymore. Also, Kongor's Undying Rage was expensive when I wrote that section, but it seems to not be the case anymore.
Dernière édition par brightwaha, le 6 mars 2018 12:31:31
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brightwaha a écrit :
"
Cloud_69 a écrit :
What the heck is going on with tidebreaker priced at 150c shit rolled?!

How on earth will we make currency with low mapping due to excuse of a weapon liek Marohi ?



Tidebreaker has always been a rare drop, the price was always low because of low demand. Now due to the new ECoMS buff as well as many different asendancies being able to make Tidebreaker builds, the demand went up, making this rare drop very expensive.

Marohi is indeed a pretty bad weapon, and I am thinking about experimenting with different ones to see if there's a good substitute before being able to afford a Tidebreaker.

Currently, number 1 on the list is Kongor's Undying Rage. I believe this is better than Marohi (I did not recommend it initially as the price was high, but currently it's not.)

Number 2 on the list is Brain Rattler. This should work pretty well during early endgame. Number 3 on the list is Jorrhast's Blacksteel. I will test it out soon to see if the Animate Weapon helps or not.

EDIT: I think it's pretty obvious that Kongor's Undying Rage and Brain Rattler are better choices. I have made changes in the guide to recommend these weapons instead. I previously recommended Marohi because I personally started this build with a 4-link Marohi (pseudo 5-link). But as I am also recommending putting the main skill link inside body armour, the main advantage of Marohi isn't used anymore. Also, Kongor's Undying Rage was expensive when I wrote that section, but it seems to not be the case anymore.


I was indeed also looking at Kongor's, but haven't tested yet. Seems a very viable choice for 2 reasons:
- 20% resis, which means it opens more options on rings/amu cause resis is easier capped. For myself I can change my helmet from goldrim to devoto.
- hit's can't be evaded, so we can respec resolute technique, meaning a free skillpoint. Plus we can crit again (no RT), but instead we get free onslaught = more chance to stun bosses or slightly faster farming.

I haven't tested, but brain rattler seems less viable choice cause flee is implemented in the weapon. We already don't have a super aoe clearspeed, with mobs fleeing this gets even worse if you don't 1 shot?
Dernière édition par Deadlyshine, le 7 mars 2018 02:08:20
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Deadlyshine a écrit :
I was indeed also looking at Kongor's, but haven't tested yet. Seems a very viable choice for 2 reasons:
- 20% resis, which means it opens more options on rings/amu cause resis is easier capped. For myself I can change my helmet from goldrim to devoto.
- hit's can't be evaded, so we can respec resolute technique, meaning a free skillpoint. Plus we can crit again (no RT), but instead we get free onslaught = more chance to stun bosses or slightly faster farming.

I haven't tested, but brain rattler seems less viable choice cause flee is implemented in the weapon. We already don't have a super aoe clearspeed, with mobs fleeing this gets even worse if you don't 1 shot?


The flee won't be so bad.

1. There is only 10% chance to flee.

2. Flee doesn't mean instantly moving away from screen, we are still going to hit the next couple of hits and kill them. Slayer clearing with Heavy Strike can pull them back as well.

3. Stunned enemies can't run away.

That being said, I also agree that Brain Rattler is a less viable choice, but just in case that Kongor's price goes insane, I prefer to put up 2 choices, and Brain Rattler seems to be the best follow up choice to me.
Picked up a Kongors after getting frustrated with the tide breaker prices. Only at level 78 but I can attest the Onslaught isn't bad without any investment into crit. Doubt the price will go even close to where tidebreaker is now so it might just be a viable choice to find another way to generate end charges. As a slayer I'm not exactly sure how. Vengeance + Stun + End on stun is what I've got in my chest and it kinda works if I'm not stunning constantly but as for during mapping its pretty meh.
"
Lenaric a écrit :
Picked up a Kongors after getting frustrated with the tide breaker prices. Only at level 78 but I can attest the Onslaught isn't bad without any investment into crit. Doubt the price will go even close to where tidebreaker is now so it might just be a viable choice to find another way to generate end charges. As a slayer I'm not exactly sure how. Vengeance + Stun + End on stun is what I've got in my chest and it kinda works if I'm not stunning constantly but as for during mapping its pretty meh.


Enduring Cry may be used to generate endurance charges, but why do you really want them to begin with?

Because we if don't have a Tidebreaker yet and don't have Endurance Charge on Melee Stun Support on our main damage link, we don't benefit that much from endurance charges anymore - it's just 4% physical mitigation per charge. I would just forget about endurance charges until I have a Tidebreaker.
What about Perseverance Belt? Thoughts on it?




So far fortify/onslaught is up like 100% of the time for me. I'm really enjoying the qol boost this is giving.
Dernière édition par Lenaric, le 7 mars 2018 17:23:07

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