increase rate of Trials found in maps

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Fruz a écrit :

Yes they are.

In FF series, some side quest give you powerful weapons.
Powerful weapons are part of the character's developments in the same way 2 ascendancy points are.
Those are still side quests, optional content = bonus; You do not need them to reach the end of the game.

I don't see how the two connect. We're talking about actual parts of character development added to the game. If you map, and you want to obtain the best stuff, you're already doing stuff that goes beyond what the game itself is. The game ends at act 4 Malachai, in normal. That is where the story ends. You don't need to do the two additional difficulties or map. You don't need to even do the labyrinth once, let alone 4 times. Does this make the additional difficulties "bonus content"? It is just "content" in terms of this game design.

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Fruz a écrit :

If you feel that it's not optional, it's your expectations that are not in line with what the game is.

I didn't say it wasn't optional did I? I said that I expect to be able to progress. A couple hours per day is a reasonable investment into a game, expecting to progress isn't that much to ask for.

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SaiyanZ a écrit :

A good way to do it is to join a party on 820 and everyone chain their own maps solo. That way you find trials 6x faster, combined with joining random others sharing in 820, it's actually pretty fast to get all 6 trials. Don't think it will take more than 2 hours now if starting from scratch.

That is one of the two options I was considering, but I don't like it. Last time I was in 820 they were a disagreeable bunch. I doubt much has changed.

How it connects ?
It's just how I said before : optional content is content that you don't need to go through the game, and that's definitely what we have here.
( By "go through the game", I mean reaching the end at an honest, okay pace, not that most people will have enough time for this though ).

The game does not end at Malachai normal obviously ... the main story line is not the game, is is not "the end" or anything, it just warps you to cruel ( I have not done Merc Malachai though tbh, not really interested, maybe for the prophecy chalenge this time ).


Sorry for slightly changing the words you used, you said that they were not a "bonus" ( I used "optional", not "bonus" ).
And my point is that they are optional content, bonuses.

For example, some Atziri's drop are a big enough power up for some builds to be considered actually character progression content.
The realy difference is : you can trade those.
It may be possible to trade the 6 offering, but you cannot trade the completion of the labyrinth, right ?
That would be the real different I would see with Atziri to be honest.

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Fruz a écrit :

How it connects ?
It's just how I said before : optional content is content that you don't need to go through the game, and that's definitely what we have here.
( By "go through the game", I mean reaching the end at an honest, okay pace, not that most people will have enough time for this though ).

The game does not end at Malachai normal obviously ... the main story line is not the game, is is not "the end" or anything, it just warps you to cruel ( I have not done Merc Malachai though tbh, not really interested, maybe for the prophecy chalenge this time ).

The storyline is the game for games like FF. When the story ends, so does the game, and you get your little cut scenes and such.

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Fruz a écrit :

Sorry for slightly changing the words you used, you said that they were not a "bonus" ( I used "optional", not "bonus" ).
And my point is that they are optional content, bonuses.

They are optional content. I never denied such. I don't consider part of character progression to be a "bonus" though.

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Fruz a écrit :

For example, some Atziri's drop are a big enough power up for some builds to be considered actually character progression content.
The realy difference is : you can trade those.
It may be possible to trade the 6 offering, but you cannot trade the completion of the labyrinth, right ?
That would be the real different I would see with Atziri to be honest.

Atziri is much closer a comparison of the two you presented. But atziri doesn't give you any passives. If you wanted a more apt comparison, it would be finding the busts in the sewers for passive points. But really since they are specialty points to begin with, you would compare them directly to the other 3 labyrinths. If you compared it to those, which would fit, the trials always exist, and their locations are known. They are not random. To translate this to mapping would have set maps that dropped specific trials. I'm not sure how I would feel about that, but at least I could guarantee finding the trial I was looking for.

I see passive and build enabling uniques ( like the instant leech on crit for example ) as both elements that helps the character's progress, and don't make that much of a difference between them.
The main difference to me is the fact that you can trade one, and not the other.
The content has not really been made harder since we got ascendancy classes right ? So we could still consider those classes as a pure bonus at the end.
From now on, the balance will obviously be including those though.


It's not like those 2 points allow you to access that extra uber ability that lies after spending 6 other points to get to it.
You can already reach the furthest routes in the ascendancy classes without it.

The randomnes about it basically makes the access time longer.
In couple of weeks, the prices will have stabilized and people will be able to buy the offering that they are missing on the market, maybe for not too much of a price ( since mappers might just not need all the offering they get and start selling them for orbs ), let's see in a week how that turns out.

Because even if from a self found point of view, they are rare .... I am pretty sure that plenty of mappers will have loads of those to sell at some point, and that is probably what GGG wants, it ends up being based on trade, like most things in this game.

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Fruz a écrit :

The main difference to me is the fact that you can trade one, and not the other.

The main difference is that one is actually part of your character passive tree, and the other is gear.

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Fruz a écrit :

The content has not really been made harder since we got ascendancy classes right ? So we could still consider those classes as a pure bonus at the end.

As long as it is part of my character development I can't consider it a bonus. I can consider it optional.

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Fruz a écrit :

It's not like those 2 points allow you to access that extra uber ability that lies after spending 6 other points to get to it.
You can already reach the furthest routes in the ascendancy classes without it.

In my case, you are correct. The last two points don't really make all that much of a difference. But depending on the build you wouldn't necessarily be right. I mean if I decided to swap to totems, I'd want those last two points really bad, because I could get both Hinekora (which would let totems leech damage to me), and Tukohama (make my totems immune to fire, and therefore immune to reflect).

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Fruz a écrit :

Because even if from a self found point of view, they are rare .... I am pretty sure that plenty of mappers will have loads of those to sell at some point, and that is probably what GGG wants, it ends up being based on trade, like most things in this game.

For the most part I am self found. I play solo, don't buy things on trade except for currency items (if they sold all currency items from the vendors I probably wouldn't even do that). I do sell things occasionally (but not very actively). I have played in parties and such too, but not very frequently or even recently. I think the last major time I partied was back when masters were first introduced. I had enough of global 820 back then.

to me, trials in maps are the best thing ever, im not bored anymore to play maps, it's so motivating

do you know that from 1 labyrith run you can get 1 exalted worth of stuff if you get the silver keys and don't go directly to izaro.

ilvl84 items, from T10 to T13 maps, sacrifice fragments

the only time i did complete it ( not going to do it anymore atm cause of the door bug ), dropped 7-8 fragments 1 of them was a midnight


making trials more common like once every 5 maps, then there should be a nerf to the drops in the labyrinth, else a slightly better rate than now is more than enough but im ok with the current spawn rate

you can do labyrinth rotations or do them in the guild and for sure if you want you can make easily 10 runs a day...


if the spawn rate of fragments was 1 every 5 maps, opening the box containing maps in the ascendancy room, simply would make you able to sustain T10-T11 maps simply running them WHITE
the current rate seems fine

Spawn rate is really strange.

Run 40 to 50 maps without one.

Then get 5 trials in 5 back to back maps.


This seriously happened to me yesterday, I was WTF after the 2nd, by the 5th I was like 'bug, lol, obviously bugged'. Then they stopped and went to notrialsforu mode again.

.... got mine in 8 hrs with Fire_On_The_Mountain. Maybe team you with a mate...I found 4 he found 5 and we were done first day.

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JohnNamikaze a écrit :

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InAshesTheyShallReap a écrit :

the current rate seems fine

In my case where I have 25+ characters in standard......the spawn rate is hellish. I just want to get those two asc points for all my chars and done with endgame laby for good.....until I make another char. :(

Yeah sucks if you are already leveled but I belive most ppl who hit MAPS at 65-68 will get at least 20 trials by 85 then it's like no biggie because you are leveling and looting anyway. Its frustrating if you want to take a bunch of 90s toons to lvl 8 tho.