how to get rid of d2jsp, or at least lower its usage a lot

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your tone was very demeaning, thats why the report. i didnt really give a shit, i reported you because its the right thing to do! i found many ideas i saw here stupid, yet i never explicitly told that to anyone

Not sure... but isn't the point of a discussion to convince the other side that there idea is stupid... and part of convincing usually is telling them that it is.

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mentality you people have is what puts rmters and jsp users ahead of you. "if i cant have the legacy shavs, so be it!" well many people are like "if i cant have the legacy shavs, i will buy the legacy shavs! let me find a nice site for that...oooh look! jsp!" banning a few people who massively fuck up while jsp trading isnt gonna change anything, its just not the right way to go

Yeah the thing is, I want to earn it. I don't want to buy it. I also just want a regular Shavs, no legacy. And I likely could buy it in standard I have enough stuff there (I assume I haven't played standard since before Ambush... so my stash is likely a mess). If I play a game that's basically like a party invite. I go there and play by the rules that are intented by whoever invited me. And they made the decision to have a clean cut between the economy of different leagues and I am really glad. The reason for new leagues is to give players a fresh start and to reduce the economical advantage veteran players have. I would have a bunch of uniques, propably some legacys tons of chaos, some exalts and whatever in standard. Some likely have even more in standard from there temp leagues. This means they would always be privileged compared to people just starting the game.

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also jsp obviously wasnt rmt enough for blizzard because they never banned a single person for it. not one.

They did ban a lot of people. There actually was a larger banwave in autumn 2003. The amount of people that used it never were that high in D2 that it caught there interest during the peak of D2 and later they already sold the game and weren't really maintaining it all that much anymore besides the battle.net, so it was a total waste to invest any ressources into that at all.

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hideouts a écrit :

mentality you people have is what puts rmters and jsp users ahead of you. "if i cant have the legacy shavs, so be it!" well many people are like "if i cant have the legacy shavs, i will buy the legacy shavs! let me find a nice site for that...oooh look! jsp!" banning a few people who massively fuck up while jsp trading isnt gonna change anything, its just not the right way to go

Making a fundamental shift in the philosophy of temporary leagues based around a few people who decide not to follow the TOS is not the right way to go about things, either.

From reading the threads/feedback and posts on the topic, it wasn't a snap decision made by GGG. It was based on a lot of careful thought about how they wanted the Temp Leagues and races to work - they wanted to firmly separate them in the TOS from the permanent leagues to ensure that players could benefit primarily from skill, time commitment, and luck within a fresh economy. That is why the ladder exists, that is why prizes for challenge completions exist. It gives GGG the potential to create a competitive environment that players are willing and able to participate in.

The small number of fuckwits who use JSP agsinst the TOS are not worth making that change over, because it is a MASSIVE change - to the point where Temp Leagues become essentially pointless outside of being Beta tests for new content and mechanics.

I'm not saying there is no value in your suggestion, but the value doesn't outweigh the benefits of the current system that would be lost with your ideas implementation.

I'm not expecting to change your mind, but I don't have to. YOU have to change GGGs mind, and to do that you're going to need to prove there is merit to your suggestion further than "It will help stop people using JSP."

Cheers, and thanks for the thread.

@Emphasy

i wanted to say that even though you dont want to do it, if someone does, he will simply go to jsp and trade cross-realm. and unless he does something absolutely retarded like saying "hello, asdadsads@jsp here" and the other guy reports him, he will not get banned. and the problem is that its not a few people doing it, its a lot!

also jsp was founded in 2002 i think and it was the site where you would get the diablo 2 bot (jsp is short for java script parser, the thing was a bot site). then in 2006~2007 i think, nfaguar went legit and was like "hey, we arent doing anything wrong here, we just trade for our improvised currency! and if people wanna donate to my site, well okaaaaay..." blizzard couldnt do much because it didnt break their terms of use, so nfag became a millionaire without doing anything. the guy didnt even write the codes, he stole them from the people who did

@nait2k4

ye well, i guess i realize that. i know that if you enable cross league trades, you will invite people who dont do it, to start doing it. the difference between our opinions is that i think much more people uses jsp than you estimate, its not just a handful. since theres no way to track usage of jsp, people can pretty much do it with no risk. i assumed that majority of crossrealm traders do use jsp, and that adding the option wouldnt change much economy-wise, and would keep people from getting randomly banned for what looks to me as a minor offense

anyway, since ggg had already made their decision on this matter, maybe would be good to close or delete this topic. i dont wanna encourage even more people to use that shit of a site

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hideouts a écrit :

i disagree on both.

1) rmters have easy way around the system anyway and adding cross-trading will change nothing in that regard. you dont really seem to know how the system works. even a smarter than the average bear can trade on jsp without having his acc being in danger whatsoever, let alone a real rmter

2) there is a reason. some people want to make perfect standard chars. i know that because i liked to do that in d2. in poe i dont because everything gets changed every patch, so my "perfect char" idea doesnt really work in that case, but in most games i do that and i know many people who do the same. cross realm trading makes perfect sense in that case because people would play the temp league for some fun, but the real fun would be to buy the std exalts and buy some nice gear!

Are you troll? you insult me and then report Charan for insulting you.

1. making trading easier make it easier to RMT
making cross league trading make it easier to trade for not RMT guys who will also add items to temporary league and completly removing fresh economy.
Again. If you search for people who use own head, you search on wrong side of your monitor.

2. If you can't success without cross league trading then you nee to learn how to play.
You know why some people do buy items for real money? Because they dont want to learn to became better they just buy better gear/character. You are one of that people.

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kamil1210 a écrit :

1. making trading easier make it easier to RMT

This is upside-down logic.

Tedious and difficult trading encourages illegal activities because they allow for instant gratification and side-stepping of the trading process. More accessible trading would have the opposite effect.

The mentioned site was in fact a result of D2's trading being inaccessible and tedious, more so than PoE's trading approach.

I'm surprised this thread is still here. It blatantly mentions the name of a site used for activities that violate PoE's terms of service, which advertises the site to people not familiar with it.

To the original poster:
Would you be so kind to stop claiming that everyone who wanted to buy anything in D2 had to use and in fact did use jsp?
I played that game extensively even after the core time was over and trade became harder due to the diminishing player base. I used a european fan site for trading which had very strict rules and moderation regarding rmt and the use of jsp. You had to earn the trust of that forum and large trades where observed closely and moderated. Consense of that community was strictly against rmt, fishy trade practice and botting, they even had teams who brought down bots in baal runs.

So, it was absolutely possibly to do your best to stay clear of that cheating and rmting player base and have a game with a community respecting the TOS. Please stop accusing everyone around you based on your own actions/mindset.

If anything is to be done than it is to punish more and more severely. Not make everything easier for those who allready take an easy approach to this game. And "just 1 ex in temp" is a huge advantage to many players i think, at least from my perspective, you cannot just relativize it because it doesnt mean much to you.

regards

RMT is getting a little bit out of hand latly:

- spam in trade chat about RMT sites every day is becoming more and more consistant
- getting private whispers about RMT happening to people in my guild and to myself the last days
- prices falling about 10% over one single night seems very obscure to me (even 5 weeks before ending of a league

RMT is becoming more and more evident and more people are talking about it - i think we need another big banwave.

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hideouts a écrit :

tldr part, not necessary to read unless you are a poe mod:

everyone that had played d2 (and most poe players did), has at some point been practically forced to use jsp for d2 trading. it was simply better than the usual d2 trading. the downside was that it was abused for rmt by many people, starting with the owner of jsp himself. shops also made profit of the thing, which led to poe mods stating that d2jsp is considered rmt and as such, bannable.

and i understand that. if someone sells poe items for money and whatever, i dont care, ban the f*cker, he deserved it. but i have a better idea how to solve the problem, which has perhaps been suggested at some point, but maybe i can offer more insight to it.

i used jsp for d2, it was necessary and not against any rules. then i got scared and didnt use for poe because it was bannable, but i dont think thats the right way to deal with the things. heres how jsp functions: you have 5% of people that abuse it to cash in, people who should be banned, but never actually do because they have enough accounts to get banned daily until 2026 -.- banning them makes no sense because they lose nothing. however, most of the players do one thing and one thing alone: play a league start, get currency, sell for fg (forum gold, jsp currency), then use the fg to buy currency on standard. of course an exalt orb is worth much more in jsp relative currency on the start of a temp league, than on std. and this is where it might be possible to do something.

/end of tldr lol

if in theory you poe guys could make something like a cross-realm trade, it would literally eliminate at least 80% of poe users from anything jsp related. you dont want those banned anyway, because even though they are breaking poe terms of use, they imo arent doing anything immoral. just give them a way to cross-realm trade, for example somehow allow people to make a trade for example "selling 1 ex on talisman vs 5 on std". that would eliminate most of the players from ever touching jsp, eliminate the retarded and immoral blackmail threads that i know exist (example: "i know you used jsp, give me a mirror or i report"), and when the majority of players stops using jsp, the rmt'ers wont be able to sell anything because there will be no one to sell to!

This post reads like you have no plan about jsp at all ^^

I know a lot of players that use jsp and also know how they use it and from the at least 40 people i know, all of this players play season only ... at the end of the season they sell everything and buy back into the season a little quicker - or sell everything at league start and get rich mid season ... like selling ex for the jsp money 30 ex are worth a month after league start.

Making jsp go away is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy and all it needs is care of GGG - but they dont care about jsp, thats why its still available.

Make it lets say 1 week, where 2 or 3 moderators with own jsp accounts trade with people and every successful trade results in a temp ban for a week, telling that the next ban will be permanent.

It takes 2 days at maximum until there is a post in jsp forums and noone will trade anymore and the section is dead.

Was done in so many games that were listed in jsp and the creator didnt like it ... it got unlisted in the games in jsp pretty quick and takes like almost no materials at all ... just a hand full of moderators and a week.


I think jsp is one of the best things and would even like if it gets implemented into games, rather than crying about avoiding it ... Real Money Trading happens so or so .. with jsp it is at least controlled and usually no RMT but Game to Game trading.

I for example use jsp mostly for diablo 2 - selling nice items there and getting runescape gold for it.