Evasion is dead? I don't think so!

Evasion is great as long as you can prevent oneshots. Which makes LC and Taste pretty close to mandatory with the lack of efficient life nodes in the evasion area.

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Zed_ a écrit :

Evasion is great as long as you can prevent oneshots. Which makes LC and Taste pretty close to mandatory with the lack of efficient life nodes in the evasion area.

^
This, exactly.
Even if you can evade 99% of incomming hits, sooner or later you will be hit and in 2.0 maps, mobs inflict too much damage compared to the life's pool of an evasion character.
There is only 190% increase max life in total available on the left half of the tree. And nobody would take them all, the nodes are just too far away from each other. So basically, a pure eva character cannot have enough life to survive with consistency in endgame.

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Boem a écrit :

edit : honestly if you wanted to make a case for evasion, you would be running with a 2000+ evasion armor and some jade pots and a grace aura or something.

Then utilizing what the game offers every character
- endurance charges 5 tops if you take the merciless reward and visit the duelist area
- fortify
- arctic armor

Try this video of the new version of Poorjoy's Asylum.
Pure evasion build (27500 eva with permanent jade flask), no AA, no armor, no endu charge or fortify (I use a LC though). I was in the verge of death at least 10 times.
In fact, every hit received after being cursed by those whipping miscreations almost crushed me.
(the other threat was the fire degen but it could have been avoided by a ruby flask)

I'd say it would be very strange not to use lightning coil for melee. It alone mitigates more damage than the other methods combined. Chaos golem is not an option - tiny defence bonus for a lot of damage from other golems.

New poorjoy puts even 1,5k+ rare armors under question.

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Yggdrasil_57 a écrit :

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Zed_ a écrit :

Evasion is great as long as you can prevent oneshots. Which makes LC and Taste pretty close to mandatory with the lack of efficient life nodes in the evasion area.

^
This, exactly.
Even if you can evade 99% of incomming hits, sooner or later you will be hit and in 2.0 maps, mobs inflict too much damage compared to the life's pool of an evasion character.
There is only 190% increase max life in total available on the left half of the tree. And nobody would take them all, the nodes are just too far away from each other. So basically, a pure eva character cannot have enough life to survive with consistency in endgame.

"

Boem a écrit :

edit : honestly if you wanted to make a case for evasion, you would be running with a 2000+ evasion armor and some jade pots and a grace aura or something.

Then utilizing what the game offers every character
- endurance charges 5 tops if you take the merciless reward and visit the duelist area
- fortify
- arctic armor

Try this video of the new version of Poorjoy's Asylum.
Pure evasion build (27500 eva with permanent jade flask), no AA, no armor, no endu charge or fortify (I use a LC though). I was in the verge of death at least 10 times.
In fact, every hit received after being cursed by those whipping miscreations almost crushed me.
(the other threat was the fire degen but it could have been avoided by a ruby flask)

There is a bit of contradiction in this post.
The video you posted shows that builds focused on evasion, with a very mediocre hp pool can clean a map notorious for killing eva characters (vulnerability + DD on rare mob hurts!)
Your only phys damage reduction being the coil, you could arguably replace it with 4 endurance charges, fortify and AA. That combo would give better phys mitigation.
So coil and taste of hate aren't mandatory at all!

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There is only 190% increase max life in total available on the left half of the tree.

That depends on how you define left side. You could argue there is 215% before jewels (236% with 3x7% jewels). Obviously most character won't pick all the nodes up.

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tm10067 a écrit :

I'd say it would be very strange not to use lightning coil for melee. It alone mitigates more damage than the other methods combined. Chaos golem is not an option - tiny defence bonus for a lot of damage from other golems.

New poorjoy puts even 1,5k+ rare armors under question.

For me the Chaos Golem would be best, but it takes too much INT to actually be usefull. I either need to upgrade my gear to have + 40 INT in some slot or I need to waste 2-3 points on the passive tree....

If you choose to play evasion you will end up paranoid and playing over defensively

Hmmm so:
- Reave (basically the most non-melee melee skill out there);
- crit Ice Nova (keeps things frosty and away from you);
- Enfeeble (less damage taken);
- FOTM stat stick (30% extra damage as chaos, bye-bye reflect);
- lcoil;
- AA;
- ~6APS LGOH on a decent aoe.

Wait, what was this thread about? Oh yeah, evasion. You've got 1667 eva from gear, 62% increased eva from tree plus another ~62% from dex. So 3734 eva, or thereabouts.

Now Yggdrasil_57 shows up with a lvl92 eva-heavy character that almost bites it from:
- white tittybitches;
- blue tittybitches;
- blue (I think) whippers;
- detonate dead.
Your advice? Drop some eva and get more phys mitigation. While maintaining that eva is not dead.

Allright, I'll give you this much: Eva isn't dead. It's the same risky gambit it always was, but now with 150% more damage spikes. You only need 1 lucky fuse for a 6link, and 1 unlucky arrow through your chest for a dead eva character.

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Triplebuze a écrit :

There has been a whole bunch of post complaining about how evasion became terrible with 2.0.

Incorrect. There have been a bunch of posts complaining about how PURE evasion is now worse in comparison to pure armour, but evasion itself, as you said, hasn't changed and is still excellent, even in small amounts, when paired with other forms of mitigation.

It looks like you're using a Lightning Coil in your videos, which completely goes against the point. LC is a hybrid chest, not a pure evasion one, and it has one of the most desirable mitigation mods in the game. Now create a melee build with a high roll Queen of the Forest, Hyrri's Ire, or rare evasion chest, and tell us how that goes in high level maps. Or better yet, I can tell you: it works as long as you avoid certain rippy bosses. It's not ideal, but if you can get 25k+ evasion and be sure to use Arctic Armour and Fortify and have over 4.5k life, you can do 76+ Alch'd/Vaal'd maps with a pure evasion melee character. Of course, it's foolish to attempt this in hardcore, there are far more defensive ways to build a character, and most of the popular chests are hybrid, so there's almost no good reason to go pure evasion (no conversion with IR) anymore, and really that's what people are (or should be) complaining about.

I've 5.5k eva before jade.
Ice nova is lvl1 and does nothing but spread enfeeble. With the accuracy reduction from enfeeble. Should I not use enfeeble because it synergises with eva?
aps is closer to 13/s.

Yggdrasil_57 character has very low hp, and is playing a map with a 150% damage multiplier choke full of casters with phys spells (DD) and vulnerability spam. I'm not sure if the 150% increased mob life is counted for DD.
If you expect too beat this without close calls, I hope your idea of good balance never makes it to the game!

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Allright, I'll give you this much: Eva isn't dead. It's the same risky gambit it always was, but now with 150% more damage spikes. You only need 1 lucky fuse for a 6link, and 1 unlucky arrow through your chest for a dead eva character.

Believe what you want, I'll keep face rolling maps.

edit: replying to last post

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so there's almost no good reason to go pure evasion

There has never been a good reason to go pure eva or pure armor except for flavor. hybrid layered defenses have always been better. And due to how the damage system works, will always be better unless it is rewritten from the ground up.
What is oh so terrible about having to use endurance charges, AA or enfeeble on an evasion character? Where is that supposed "purity" that is lost?

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POE202 a écrit :

I will be brutally honest with you, having your life pool constantly dips past the half way point or below that is nothing close to being "viable"

Exactly what I was going to say, I was watching his life pool constantly going below 50% and was telling myself "this is not op at all, that's bad".