Evasion is dead? I don't think so!

There has been a whole bunch of post complaining about how evasion became terrible with 2.0.
Yet the formula for evasion hasn't been changed to my knowledge. If a build could evade x% of attacks in 1.3, its still evading x% in 2.0. In fact, since damage output of mobs was increased, the same amount of evasion is avoiding more damage now than before.

The trick to build a tanky evasion character has always been to stack enough effective hp, through life/es + damage reduction, to survive burst damage. And while a larger pool is necessary in 2.0, there is also more options to achieve it.

The 3 extra skill points can buy you another endurance charge or some hp, chaos golem is a very cheap way of getting 3-5% mitigation and the new arctic armor is one of the most underrated abilities in 2.0.

I made a couple videos showcasing how broken this can get when piling those mitigations forms on top of each other.
Sorry for the poor video quality, I'm having trouble finding decent settings without frying my toaster.

The rippiest gorge map I could find on poe.trade
Behold my rubbish pot management skills!

In case the text is too difficult to read, the map mods are:
enfeeble
-11% max res
-40% regen
15% phys reflect
87% extra damage as cold
45% pack size

Enraged village ruin dog
This mob hits like a truck, yet it's still possible to get in his face and burn him down while sustaining hp from a single target.
I forgot to enable blood rage, and was really sloppy with endurance charges, making it harder than it should have been.

I'm fully aware that the character in question is heavily geared, but the same build works very well with a more reasonable budget.
For gear/tree, my account is public and the character name is whiff_and_run_III


As a foot note, don't believe the nay-Sayer. There is probably more broken stuff to exploit in awakening than there ever was. The large change on many mechanics means it'll just require a bit more digging than usual.

Your choice of damage is telling... the dog does a lot of damage... in small hits. Because it's not spiky, your Evasion is essentially a high % mitigation. You need to take on a hard hitting target... something that will one shot you rather than 10-12 shot you.

I will be brutally honest with you, having your life pool constantly dips past the half way point or below that is nothing close to being "viable", especially for hardcore players. The first video demonstrates how risky evasion is even against trash mobs, 2 unlucky crit hits will ruin your day for you.

it would be somewhat acceptable if you play as a range char cause you don't normally get hit but might as well play a defensive char if you prefer to get up and personal. At least an armour based char can mitigate the small hits from trash mobs with no problems and they have a choice to skip hard hitting bosses with the possibility of being one shot. Am evasion based melee char will have a risk of dying constantly, trash mob or not.


so no, evasion is not fine.

I wouldn't call evasion revived from the ded on basis of those videos.

"

POE202 a écrit :

, 2 unlucky crit hits will ruin your day for you

Impossible with high evasion. Entropy will negate a crit if the hit makes it through. Even with pretty low evasion you'd never get hit by 2 crits in a row.

"

POE202 a écrit :

I will be brutally honest with you, having your life pool constantly dips past the half way point or below that is nothing close to being "viable", especially for hardcore players. The first video demonstrates how risky evasion is even against trash mobs, 2 unlucky crit hits will ruin your day for you.

it would be somewhat acceptable if you play as a range char cause you don't normally get hit but might as well play a defensive char if you prefer to get up and personal. At least an armour based char can mitigate the small hits from trash mobs with no problems and they have a choice to skip hard hitting bosses with the possibility of being one shot. Am evasion based melee char will have a risk of dying constantly, trash mob or not.


so no, evasion is not fine.

From what I understand, Evasion isn't intended to be something that allows a character to full on engage in melee combat. It's about grace - weave in and out, avoid hits with not just static defense (Evasion, Dodge, Block, etc) but with movement and character positioning as well.

With high enough Evasion, you can use the Entropy system to your advantage - letting you rarely, if ever, get hit once you're proficient at it.

And then if we look closely at the character in question we see that he utilizes.

6-link coil
taste of hate
fortify
LgoH with what i imagine is 7 aps?
and arctic armor



Not saying that's stupid, but considering the incomming spike damage with all of those layers of defense, that's saying something about the current state of evasion.

So basically

"evasion melee is dead unless you stack a coil and taste of hate"

Now i am not opposed to high-end content requiring multiple layered defenses, but when the availability of those optional layers of defense is reduced to two item pieces for all characters, something is off.

GGG has to step-up there game and actually implement "X physical damage taken as X element" on rare gear as a common affix to compete with other item rolls.

And more importantly to create tension between opting for a coil or a rare armor piece, where currently there is none.

Also evasion melee is rather good off compared to CI melee, but i suppose that's food for another of the multiple threads regarding that topic.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : honestly if you wanted to make a case for evasion, you would be running with a 2000+ evasion armor and some jade pots and a grace aura or something.

Then utilizing what the game offers every character
- endurance charges 5 tops if you take the merciless reward and visit the duelist area
- fortify
- arctic armor

The end.

Not some item-based means to heavily reduce incomming physical damage.

"

Boem a écrit :

And then if we look closely at the character in question we see that he utilizes.

6-link coil
taste of hate
fortify
LgoH with what i imagine is 7 aps?
and arctic armor

Yep. Lightning coil + Taste of hate and he still gets knocked down to under 10% HP by the dog. If it works for him then great, but if it takes BiS or near BiS uniques to do it, it's sure not viable globally.

"

Triplebuze a écrit :

There has been a whole bunch of post complaining about how evasion became terrible with 2.0.
Yet the formula for evasion hasn't been changed to my knowledge. If a build could evade x% of attacks in 1.3, its still evading x% in 2.0. In fact, since damage output of mobs was increased, the same amount of evasion is avoiding more damage now than before.

The trick to build a tanky evasion character has always been to stack enough effective hp, through life/es + damage reduction, to survive burst damage. And while a larger pool is necessary in 2.0, there is also more options to achieve it.

The 3 extra skill points can buy you another endurance charge or some hp, chaos golem is a very cheap way of getting 3-5% mitigation and the new arctic armor is one of the most underrated abilities in 2.0.

I made a couple videos showcasing how broken this can get when piling those mitigations forms on top of each other.
Sorry for the poor video quality, I'm having trouble finding decent settings without frying my toaster.

The rippiest gorge map I could find on poe.trade
Behold my rubbish pot management skills!

In case the text is too difficult to read, the map mods are:
enfeeble
-11% max res
-40% regen
15% phys reflect
87% extra damage as cold
45% pack size

Enraged village ruin dog
This mob hits like a truck, yet it's still possible to get in his face and burn him down while sustaining hp from a single target.
I forgot to enable blood rage, and was really sloppy with endurance charges, making it harder than it should have been.

I'm fully aware that the character in question is heavily geared, but the same build works very well with a more reasonable budget.
For gear/tree, my account is public and the character name is whiff_and_run_III


As a foot note, don't believe the nay-Sayer. There is probably more broken stuff to exploit in awakening than there ever was. The large change on many mechanics means it'll just require a bit more digging than usual.

Were you trying to prove that Evasion is ok or that LC and ToH are mandatory for maps?

"

Your choice of damage is telling... the dog does a lot of damage... in small hits. Because it's not spiky, your Evasion is essentially a high % mitigation. You need to take on a hard hitting target... something that will one shot you rather than 10-12 shot you.

I suggest you bring a character to that mob and see if it takes 1 or 2 hits to get killed :)
considering that with all those layers of mitigation I still get mauled for 3-4K hp, "small hits" is not very fitting.

"

I will be brutally honest with you, having your life pool constantly dips past the half way point or below that is nothing close to being "viable", especially for hardcore players. The first video demonstrates how risky evasion is even against trash mobs, 2 unlucky crit hits will ruin your day for you.

it would be somewhat acceptable if you play as a range char cause you don't normally get hit but might as well play a defensive char if you prefer to get up and personal. At least an armour based char can mitigate the small hits from trash mobs with no problems and they have a choice to skip hard hitting bosses with the possibility of being one shot. Am evasion based melee char will have a risk of dying constantly, trash mob or not.


so no, evasion is not fine.

Look at the map mods again. Its pretty much the nemesis of physical crit builds.
Even in 1.3, most crit builds would have ripped them self to the first few pack of mobs.
Please, show me a physical damage armor build that can clear such map in similar time without dying.

"

And then if we look closely at the character in question we see that he utilizes.

6-link coil
taste of hate
fortify
LgoH with what i imagine is 7 aps?
and arctic armor



Not saying that's stupid, but considering the incomming spike damage with all of those layers of defense, that's saying something about the current state of evasion.

So basically

"evasion melee is dead unless you stack a coil and taste of hate"

Now i am not opposed to high-end content requiring multiple layered defenses, but when the availability of those optional layers of defense is reduced to two item pieces for all characters, something is off.

GGG has to step-up there game and actually implement "X physical damage taken as X element" on rare gear as a common affix to compete with other item rolls.

And more importantly to create tension between opting for a coil or a rare armor piece, where currently there is none.

Also evasion melee is rather good off compared to CI melee, but i suppose that's food for another of the multiple threads regarding that topic.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : honestly if you wanted to make a case for evasion, you would be running with a 2000+ evasion armor and some jade pots and a grace aura or something.

Then utilizing what the game offers every character
- endurance charges 5 tops if you take the merciless reward and visit the duelist area
- fortify
- arctic armor

I think many of you are missing
The end.

Not some item-based means to heavily reduce incoming physical damage.

This character is the only one I played in the league, I obviously didn't have all the fancy stuff from the get go. And it's still very solid on a cheaper budget.
6L is pure luxury. You can put fortify on DW.
Taste of hate, i only got about 2-3 days ago. I did fine without it.
lightning coil is by far the most notable, but with good endurance charge management (this char could easily get 5), chaos golem and arctic armor it'll be pretty tanky still.
Fortify, like it or not, but you'd be silly not to use it on melee.

I find it odd that you criticize may use off layered defenses when you have defended the same in the past.
How is this "two item pieces" when you omit charges, golem, arctic armor and fortify? Those 4 things provide far more mitigation than a coil.
Taste of hate is very good, but on this build, due to no flasks node, it can't be spammed. As such it is only a reactive buff, and due to damage snapshooting will rarely save you from unexpected spikes.

"

Were you trying to prove that Evasion is ok or that LC and ToH are mandatory for maps?

All the gear was farmed while mapping with this char. Taste of hate is the last thing i got, and didn't help pay for anything.
Coil was obtaining a while ago, but the 6 ex it cost where all obtained by mapping with the same char without coil.

I think what most of you are missing here, is that none of this content is normally supposed to be played, being it by armor or eva characters.
The map has rip written all over it. There is a reason why the ranger who rolled it sold it.
Pretty much no phys build is going to play this.
For the dog, the entire point of the enrage is that you don't want to fight into it.
You are supposed to drop both bosses to 5-10% hp and cull them.

The point was to show how broken evasion gets when stacking lots of gear. For regular mapping you don't need half of that stuff. Just don't be silly and try to facetank an end game enraged boss.