Missing Melee and Abilities Isn't Fun!

I think the missing MECHANIC is fine, but having such a high base miss rate just sucks.

At level 7 I've missed 4 attacks in a row against a mini boss, and died as a direct result.

Not to mention with a slow, 2h weapon, where every miss is essentially an entire wasted second of doing no damage it's no longer acceptable to miss.

Anyways, keep the miss mechanic, but make the base hit percentage a little higher, so it doesn't feel like the game is out to get you.

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dashgalaxy86 a écrit :

I still don't get it. What's wrong with missing? It doesn't feel good? I'm sorry, do you need someone to hold your hand while you play PoE and reassure you about what a wonderfully accurate Marauder you are? I just don't see the point, guys. Did I just completely not notice that there is no "miss" mechanic in D3?

How does not missing equate to 'needing someone to hold your hand'? With that logic, GGG should remove the 'never miss' passive and 'always hit' uniques because it makes the game too simple.

Also, implying that all changes in D3 were bad, simply because D3 was a bad game overall, is a fallacy. The game definitely had some good points, it's just that they were easily outweighed by bad points.

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dashgalaxy86 a écrit :

Though I will agree that STR accuracy passives need a buff, that's as far as I'll go. Evasion and Missing mechanics are excellently designed.

How are missing mechanics 'excellently' designed in this game?

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dashgalaxy86 a écrit :

I still don't get it. What's wrong with missing? It doesn't feel good? I'm sorry, do you need someone to hold your hand while you play PoE and reassure you about what a wonderfully accurate Marauder you are? I just don't see the point, guys. Did I just completely not notice that there is no "miss" mechanic in D3?

as the guy above said, why does not missing mean the game has to hold my hand? what the hell does a random number seed have to do with my own ability as a player? the reason people don't like randomness is that it's out of their control. when they play a video game, they want the outcome to be from something they did, something they pursued. you don't get that from evasion/accuracy. arguably, you don't even get that from critting (or not critting when you needed to). i won't speak for crits, but missing is tiresome and does not reward the player for doing anything well other than attempting to stack the dice in their favor.

also, as the other guy above me said, just because something is in D3 does not mean it is a bad mechanic. D3 also had acts, guess we should get rid of those. D3 had items, bad mechanic! what imaginary line did accuracy and evasion cross to put them into the realm of "good design"

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Though I will agree that STR accuracy passives need a buff, that's as far as I'll go. Evasion and Missing mechanics are excellently designed.

how are they excellently designed? this is nowhere near the first game to implement dodge/miss mechanics. they are designed here the same as anywhere else and people are moving away from this mechanic everywhere else because it's annoying, unfun, and creates fake difficulty.

a well designed game is hard because it challenges the player's abilities. a poor design would be making it hard for reasons virtually outside the player's control. this is why D3's original inferno sucked: dying in 1-2 hits wasn't really a test of skill, it was a test of luck and hoping you got the good affixes. never got to inferno but that's what i've heard. dodging/missing is essentially the same: you remove a consistency that a player needs in order to make a tactical decision.

there is nothing tactical or rewarding about dodging or missing unless you worship a deity of chance and gambling. if i'm going to succeed, i want to succeed because i played well. if i'm going to fail, i want to fail because i played poorly. i don't want to succeed because i dodged an attack 5 times in a row and i don't want to fail because the boss 1 shots me if i get hit.

if anything, dodge/miss chance are far more akin to hand-holding than a pure skill system.

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ghostcub a écrit :

And you have an option to take if you don't like to miss, so use it. Do not ask the developers to remove an essential combat mechanic that will impact a lot of players.

This option is to far-far away my jong Padawan..

At least as Templar. I agree that this skill-node is a good solution to make both pro and con ppl happy. But its only a serieus option for Marauders. I wish the devs placed this node more in the middle so more classes had this option.

Also i think the miss-attacks are more noticeble for slow mellee. Dual-wield and onehander is way faster so its not that much of a time sink and dps los.

But to be honest and i agree with jokulmorder, its an outdated mechanic which takes away a lot of fluid and enjoyable combat. At the end its the choice of the devs and the bigger part of the playerbase.

For me its the game braking part of PoE. This is not a game that you play for 20 hours. Its ment to be played for years so i want to enjoy the most basic things like combat. As a lvl43 Templar i dont like to miss 1 out of 5 staf-attacks as i do now. Its stupid.

You say that missing is... frustrating, I guess? When I said "hold your hand", perhaps I should've said "pat you on the back". I don't understand what is wrong with "missing". What is so "not fun" about it? You have to build to be accurate? Is that the "not fun" part? Or you just feel like you're a great player and you deserve to hit all the time?

I literally didn't remember if there was a miss mechanic in D3 or not. I didn't mean to imply that it was inherently bad because you couldn't miss in D3, however I will go ahead and say that the only reason people are whining is because D3 chose to take that "pat you on the back" approach, and now people feel all butthurt that PoE won't dumb itself down.

The evasion/dodge/miss mechanics are great because of how they WORK. And also because of how they're intertwined. Sure, you get a lot of people saying "evasion is broken!", but it isn't impossible to make a great evasion build. In fact, it's very possible. As far as missing goes, well, evasion would be a useless mechanic. If you want evasion to function like armor, there's iron reflexes. If you want to never miss, there's resolute tactics. I realize not every build has easy access, but well, that's life. The ones who need it can get it easily enough (marauders, for example).

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jokulmorder a écrit :

there is nothing tactical or rewarding about dodging or missing unless you worship a deity of chance and gambling. if i'm going to succeed, i want to succeed because i played well. if i'm going to fail, i want to fail because i played poorly. i don't want to succeed because i dodged an attack 5 times in a row and i don't want to fail because the boss 1 shots me if i get hit.

As others have said, build with HP and you'll be fine. If you are a STR build with ARMOR, you still need HP. If you're an EVASION build, you bet your ass you need HP. But it's not a "roll of the dice". Oneshotting isn't all that possible in most situations if you build well enough and have passable gear.
Armor is not that different from Evasion in that they both mean you take less damage. There are different mechanics behind it, and slightly different ways to play these kinds of characters, but the result is the same. In 5 hits, a character with high evasion will get its damage reduced by simply not being hit. For the armor wearer, it's just flat damage reduction.

I think a chance to miss is a good thing because it makes the game mechanics more complex and grants more builds or at least a bigger difference between the builds.
With that feature it is usefull to to put some points in Dex e.g. even with a marauder.

Some Builds need a good chance to hit (like builds which trigger stun or elemental effects or leeching life/mana), some builds dont need such a high chance (because of AoE-dmg, very fast attackspeed...)

"Chance to Hit" is rather similar to crit-Builds:
- Chance to hit: If u dont hit you dont do dmg - if you hit u do dmg
- Crit-Build: If u dont crit you do hardly no dmg if you crit, you do a lot of dmg

There are some ways to avoid that too: passive skill, "always hit" weapons... So if u dont like it - you simply could do such a build.



Btw. My lvl 53 phys dmg Sweep/Heavy strike Marauder (2H Mace) does pretty well with 79-80% chance to hit by only spending 2 points in the two best %Acc passives available. (some Accuracy on items and focusing on IAS)

But now I think a 2H axe would have been the better choice because I dont focus on stun at all and Axes have a better base-dmg and more Accuracy passives by almost the same speed.


Perhaps Dex should give more Accuracy, because imho the Acc-Stat is way better than dex...

IMO, its a good RPG feature.

maybe i am biased because i've played a lot of RPGs with that setup.

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dashgalaxy86 a écrit :

You say that missing is... frustrating, I guess? When I said "hold your hand", perhaps I should've said "pat you on the back". I don't understand what is wrong with "missing". What is so "not fun" about it? You have to build to be accurate? Is that the "not fun" part? Or you just feel like you're a great player and you deserve to hit all the time?

I have no idea what makes the miss factor so fun for you like it is copie-paste from older gams right now. Its so static and mathematical.

Other games have examples how modern and more enjoyable combat works with lets say 'dodge'. Take GW2 or KoA. Press shift+direction-key makes you sidestep or roll and dodge the attack. if this makes my attack miss it is OK. I see it, i understand it and it skill vs skill. This is so much better then miss 2 times in a row with my slow staff while the mob is 'chilled/cant move/also realy like to end it quick.

Evasion in PoE can be something like this: instead of rolling away like dodge should be, evasion is more standing in place and press 'control+x'. Now my char looks like a ghost a bit and he evades an attack. The more Evasion i have, the longer i can evade.

Simpel, enjoyable combat dont you think.

Well, again. I ignore D3 where you always hit. I go back to D2 again. A lot of people still play D2, although there is a guarantee of 5% chance to miss if my memory works good.

Perhaps evasion and accuracy need some rework but please don't say it is mechanic that needs to be deleted