What happened to Engaging Combat? Video Feedback.

Getting loot is fun. Not so much when it's not the loot you want right? Imagine running through high level maps pressing one button. Or wow... maybe two buttons. I know this is hard for some of yall to imagine. Two buttons is some big brain time. But you're running through these maps pressing one button and you don't get any good loot. Or not enough at least. Now imagine the combat is actually seeable, the enemies are responsive, the loot is balanced for less kills to provide more loot, and the people who want to be engaged with the killing itself are happy. Then it's the combat that's fun. Even if you don't get what you wanted, you are having fun. So let me ask yall methodical combat naysayers something. If yall played yall's typical zooming build through high level maps, and didn't get a single loot drop, would you still be having fun? And if you are having fun, how long do you think that fun would last when not getting loot. If the answer is NOT THAT LONG... then the combat is not engaging.

E: I'm saying if you take loot out of the equation FIRST, then we can get down to the root of "engaging combat." Because there are lots of forms of engaging combat. Batman arkham asylum, dark souls, and baldurs gate gate 3 are all completely different games and all could be argued to have engaging combat. It's just in what way would THIS game have to cultivate it.

Yall are arguing against slowing the game down and suggesting that paced combat isn't engaging. But is it the loot that's engaging for yall or are yall actually talking about engaging combat? Nothing wrong with loot being engaging. I just don't think that it should be the only thing. I think it should be secondary to the core of gameplay.

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Mav2125#5750 a écrit :

and the people who want to be engaged with the killing itself are happy.

When the people are happy for this cause they need to visit psychotherapist until something irreparable happened.
Not much else to say about the whole argument of enganging combat/one click combat. Except the fact that it's pointless. If it seemed that 0.1 was close, engaging blaw-blaw-blaw, it only seemed so due to lack of balance.

Because the basic concept of poe2 is the Atlas with endless amount of explorable nodes, they improve it with every patch, paying a lot of attention to this feature. How far you can go with slow combat, it is just incompatible with this concept, especially given how large the maps are. And again they are not going to change it either. First they gave checkpoints, now they gave sprint, they offer compromise but not going to change map sizes it seems.

How many freaks you will find out there who spend 1000 hours a league and will explore Atlas at decent extent while enjoying enganging combat during an hour on every map? Like 5-10k, right? It's not the numbers they want.

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JEE_ZUZ#0982 a écrit :

Because the basic concept of poe2 is the Atlas with endless amount of explorable nodes, they improve it with every patch, paying a lot of attention to this feature. How far you can go with slow combat, it is just incompatible with this concept, especially given how large the maps are. And again they are not going to change it either. First they gave checkpoints, now they gave sprint, they offer compromise but not going to change map sizes it seems.

How many freaks you will find out there who spend 1000 hours a league and will explore Atlas at decent extent while enjoying enganging combat during an hour on every map? Like 5-10k, right? It's not the numbers they want.

They also paying a lot of attention to the campaign and combo skills and slower builds, which are absolete with the huge packsize and that weak mobs and bosses on maps.

Slow combat is not related to the atlas progress. They can easily manage the atlas POI density and exploration speed apart of combat mechanics.
And I think most of players don't like hideout game when you have to manage your waystones more than actually playing them, that gameplay sux.
Your 5-10k numbers are funny, how did you calculate that?
I'd say 5-10k are enjoying mindless screenblasting rather than good combat, especially considering many players are waiting for a full release and EA playerbase mostly consits of poe1 blasters, and even there many players who are tires of PoE1 combat (like me) and want different game.

People also should keep in mind that the game is consists not only from combat alone, if they didn't notice and they didn't. The devs give for the first time decently told story, they spit, the devs give characters behind the 3d models, they spit, they give soundtrack they don't hear. Crafting is too complicated for them. Don't be surpirsed game industry generally offers mediocrity more often than not.

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Nikuksis#6962 a écrit :

Slow combat is not related to the atlas progress. They can easily manage the atlas POI density and exploration speed apart of combat mechanics.

Why they won't do it and make everyone happy? this is so easy. You told us, so it is.

From your post I see you like to argue for the sake arguement. But generally you told nothing and especially proven nothing, typical rant: I don't like this, I don't like that, blaw-blaw, different game. So you maybe go and play different game then?

From a game development standpoint, if I even mentioned anything about meaningful combat, that would have to be a priority and a central focus of development. The development priority would have to be something like this (Combat-->Enemy and enemy ai/player interaction/grouping and balance-->Then build interaction and passive bonuses(and this would have to be cross referenced with the enemy balance)--> and then loot. The reason being, Combat is something you will be doing NONSTOP. It doesn't stop. Ever. From the moment you load in to a map and see an enemy, you are engaging with this aspect of the game. Now I think one of two options happened. The developers messed up this order, or they rushed/gave up and started pulling assets
from path of exile 1. Possibly for financial reasons. I mean look at the launch success. That's 30 dollars a person. If that were the case, I could at least expect good development in the future despite the pitfalls. And by priority, I just mean the order in which things are based. Not that anything gets more attention than any other aspect of the game. It's very easy to develop some cool moves and show them off against unrealistic scenarios. Especially if different scenarios already existed in the game.

I also don't know the reasoning behind this but these are just some of my theories behind the development of path of exile 2.

And it's hard to balance combat around enemies and builds and loot when that stuff is already cemented. Nearly impossible especially in a game as complex as this. It's easier to balance all that other stuff around something you will be doing all the time.

could you guys imagine "slow, meaningful combat" in horrific huge maps like we have in POE 2?

I prefer my maps to be 100% in a few minutes... These maps are too big and time consuming to be slowed down anymore.


Frankly I think the sprinting speed should just be added to all boots. BOots should get up to 50% movement speed natively on the item, without implicits or sockets.


The slowness of the game wouldn't be so horrible if the maps weren't 4x the size or more of POE 1 maps. If you want us moving in quicksand why on fucks earth did you make the zones LARGER?

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JEE_ZUZ#0982 a écrit :

Why they won't do it and make everyone happy? this is so easy. You told us, so it is.

Because the game does not have much content yet, and is zoomy, if they make this the game will last even less than 2-3 weeks.

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JEE_ZUZ#0982 a écrit :

From your post I see you like to argue for the sake arguement. But generally you told nothing and especially proven nothing, typical rant: I don't like this, I don't like that, blaw-blaw, different game. So you maybe go and play different game then?

I am arguing because it seems when nobody argues and people just cry that the game is too slow in 0.1 and too hard in 0.2 they make those patches like this. So I'd rather argue now.
It is also satisfying to see that im not alone at my point of view, and every second thread pop up in feedback about the game too fast or too zoomy or too easy. Probably GGG will decide what player base they want in the new PoE2, the same guys from PoE1 who already donated there and wont give extra money for extra game or they want to conquer the entire ARPG playerbase, including the gamers who like slower games.

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Nikuksis#6962 a écrit :

Because the game does not have much content yet, and is zoomy, if they make this the game will last even less than 2-3 weeks.

Hehe....hey do an hour check real quick. How many hours have you played? How many builds have you tried? How much content have you not explored? Have you made every build? Have you taken every archetype to the highest content? Remind me how much will this game cost? Nothing? Oh that's right.

"Not much content yet" smh. It certainly isn't COMPLETE yet, and never will be. But saying it doesn't have much content is nuts.

Even if the game had NO ENDGAME....it would still have more content right now than a hell of a lot of other fully developed and complete games.

Whether that content is keeping your interest is another story.

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cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

Hehe....hey do an hour check real quick. How many hours have you played? How many builds have you tried? How much content have you not explored? Have you made every build? Have you taken every archetype to the highest content? Remind me how much will this game cost? Nothing? Oh that's right.

"Not much content yet" smh. It certainly isn't COMPLETE yet, and never will be. But saying it doesn't have much content is nuts.

Even if the game had NO ENDGAME....it would still have more content right now than a hell of a lot of other fully developed and complete games.

Whether that content is keeping your interest is another story.

I agree. I just said its has way less content comparing to PoE1 and comparing with planned content for the release.

I personally like the way they did atlas in poe2, makes more progress feeling and much more interesting to search for unique maps/hideouts/bosses or just some cool stuff there, splitting for biomes etc.
All that is great design imo.

PS. I have 350 hours in poe2, and 3700 hours in poe1 (I love poe2 more so far because I enjoy more the process of playing and combat itself rather than "winning" the game and poe2 is better at it)