What happened to Engaging Combat? Video Feedback.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

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AverBeg7#1689 a écrit :

It's not ideas. It's the practical mechanics of the game. How it works. It's personal experience and feedback pertaining to that experience that counts. If you have a problem with your experience, you should give feedback that pertains to it. Not suggest the entire game is remade with "ideas".

What do you mean? The ideas I've had are specifically targeted at practical mechanics of the game. How some work right now are not good so they need to work differently... which is why I came up with some ideas of my own for that to suggest.

A lot of overhaul is needed for a lot of things, like we established before... numbers are not enough.

Feedback about your experience in the current iteration of PoE2 is the only thing that matters when we are talking about improving the integrity and pacing of combat.

Just to keep this argument going, you seem to be completely avoiding that fact.

"Ideas for better versions" of "mechanics" are not helpful, and what you suggest is not that. It is things like "10x less monsters, 10x stronger". It is just you saying "remake the whole game, in my vision".

They are already trying to improve the combat, so help them by actually testing it out and then giving feedback about what you actually experienced firsthand.

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AverBeg7#1689 a écrit :

Feedback about your experience in the current iteration of PoE2 is the only thing that matters when we are talking about improving the integrity and pacing of combat.

Just to keep this argument going, you seem to be completely avoiding that fact.

"Ideas for better versions" of "mechanics" are not helpful, and what you suggest is not that. It is things like "10x less monsters, 10x stronger". It is just you saying "remake the whole game, in my vision".

They are already trying to improve the combat, so help them by actually testing it out and then giving feedback about what you actually experienced firsthand.

I've already tested it out, what? Everything I've said applies to this iteration. What even do you mean?

Give me an example of such feedback you speak of? What exactly is your feedback towards that? Right now what you're saying make no sense to me.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

I've already tested it out, what? Everything I've said applies to this iteration. What even do you mean?

Give me an example of such feedback you speak of? What exactly is your feedback towards that? Right now what you're saying make no sense to me.

"When I was playing sorc with frostbolt/snap with decent gear, I felt that in A2- the Valley of Titans, there were too many enemies, and I did not have enough damage to kill the necromancers that revived them. When I got to the boss, my abilities did not target correctly even though he was huge, and the swarms of enemies just surrounded me no matter what I did. I feel like there should be less monster density in the areas leading up to this fight, especially less Necromancers. In the fight itself, the targeting issue needs to be fixed, and the swarms of enemies needs to be tuned down"

(all based on feedback they received and changes they already implemented that made the campaign better)

Something like that. Why is it so hard to understand what specific firsthand feedback means?

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AverBeg7#1689 a écrit :

"When I was playing sorc with frostbolt/snap with decent gear, I felt that in A2- the Valley of Titans, there were too many enemies, and I did not have enough damage to kill the necromancers that revived them. When I got to the boss, my abilities did not target correctly even though he was huge, and the swarms of enemies just surrounded me no matter what I did. I feel like there should be less monster density in the areas leading up to this fight, especially less Necromancers. In the fight itself, the targeting issue needs to be fixed, and the swarms of enemies needs to be tuned down"

(all based on feedback they received and changes they already implemented that made the campaign better)

Something like that. Why is it so hard to understand what specific firsthand feedback means?

What do you think I derived my feedback from if not my experiences? What difference does it make if I provide examples of situations that happened throughout the whole game?

Sure, I could write an example like:

"While I was playing on my mercenary with Fragmentation rounds/permafrost bolts with whatever gear I found through my first playthrough in league 0.3, I felt like bosses died too fast and I couldn't really engage with them in any meaningful way, they didn't feel like bosses to me. Moreover, I didn't feel like combat was fun or interesting in general from the start of act 1 till endgame when I stopped playing. I didn't like being swarmed by monsters with my only option being to shoot them dead before they reach me or die myself instead. Monster attack patterns felt really boring, most of them just auto-attacking but even if they didn't, since they died so fast it didn't really matter if they had more complex attacks. This happened as soon as I exited Clearfell till endgame and it progressively got worse. Abyss monsters were the most obvious ones to make me feel that way from an early stage but not only.

I also didn't like that I could pin bosses into inaction almost permanently with mercenary or everything else for that matter. Later on in my gameplay, I've used explosive grenades, which felt the same way.

The combat in this game doesn't look like the way you've advertised it"

What difference does this make? I've had the same experience on minions as well. The little I've tried on a sorceress with Contagion felt even less engaging. I've also seen what others did with their own classes/builds that I didn't engage with personally and it's pretty much the same. It's a systematic problem.

This kind of feedback is good only when the problems are outliers and it's not the norm. Which is not the case here. Which is also why my feedback looks the way it does...

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

Sure, I could write an example like:

"While I was playing on my mercenary with Fragmentation rounds/permafrost bolts, I felt like bosses died too fast and I couldn't really engage with them in any meaningful way, they didn't feel like bosses to me.

Yeah they nerfed boss hp in 0.2 to compensate for most skills/supports being terrible early, then they buffed the supports in 0.3 so the bosses are just paper. They should buff them. Especially for things like xbows that perform really well they are turbo easy.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

Moreover, I didn't feel like combat was fun or interesting in general from the start of act 1 till endgame when I stopped playing.

And here is where I think you start being dishonest. That's not actually feedback, it is something you are inserting to prove a point.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

I also didn't like that I could pin bosses into inaction almost permanently with mercenary or everything else for that matter. Later on in my gameplay, I've used explosive grenades, which felt the same way"

What difference does this make? I've had the same experience on minions as well. The little I've tried on a sorceress with Contagion felt even less engaging. I've also seen what others did with their own classes/builds that I didn't engage with personally and it's pretty much the same. It's a systematic problem.

Many skills do not feel that easy, you are conveniently listing some of the most powerful archetypes for early progression. Is this thread about pacing the combat, or is it about nerfing everything to be your definition of sane gameplay?

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

I don't know if it's already too late for the game to break free from it's past, but at the very least I know I've tried.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk7fx9FM0rI


I also want to mention that Dreamcore made a pretty good video on the topic, even if I don't really agree with his takeaway at the end of it.

His conclusion is expected though... he is a PoE1 CC so of course he'd be more inclined towards that outcome, like all of them. But his assessments are correct for the most part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkeVq5Jnqzg

Good points actually, thanks for sharing.

(Puts on tin foil hat) are they just trying to remake POE 1 with better game engine and refined mechanics, keeping what works from POE 1 and eventually slowly making it more and more like POE 1 so the POE 1 players will slowly migrate across before cut off in 2029. If they bridge the gap close enough will it work? "Abyssal is crap in POE 1 but now its really good in POE 2"

Will we see another major POE 1 league mechanic that sucks work good in POE 2.

I dont mind the idea that you can play slower grinding builds but the end result is the problem not the builds. If there was a way to adjust drop rate based on kill speed and exp adjusted to kill speed this would not be an issue and would not cause imbalance in economy. Self adjusting game mechanics focused on character build, not 1 fits all.

People will always play the builds that yield the most gains.

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AverBeg7#1689 a écrit :

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

Moreover, I didn't feel like combat was fun or interesting in general from the start of act 1 till endgame when I stopped playing.

And here is where I think you start being dishonest. That's not actually feedback, it is something you are inserting to prove a point.

Many skills do not feel that easy, you are conveniently listing some of the most powerful archetypes for early progression.

How so when that was literally my experience and how I felt playing with crossbows? Are you trying to tell me how I should feel or what?

"Moreover, I didn't feel like combat was fun or interesting in general from the start of act 1 till endgame when I stopped playing. I didn't like being swarmed by monsters with my only option being to shoot them dead before they reach me or die myself instead."

This is literally how I felt and my experience.

And like I've said afterwards, I've felt the same way on other characters as well. AND if you didn't pick up on it, I mentioned clearly

"I didn't like being swarmed by monsters with my only option being to shoot them dead before they reach me or die myself instead."

Skills that were less powerful or not made for killing big crowds of enemies, resulted in me getting swarmed and killed without any real way for me to engage with said combat in any meaningful way. Which is also why I didn't end up using them.

Here's a fun fact, my fave skill from crossbows both visually, and thematically is Plasma Blast. Yet, I can't really use it due to the systematic problems the game has. Another one is Supercharged Slam.

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Krym0r3#7733 a écrit :

If there was a way to adjust drop rate based on kill speed and exp adjusted to kill speed this would not be an issue and would not cause imbalance in economy.

Wait so, people metagaming the speed of their character is bad, but people metagaming intentionally killing the things on their screen slower is good?

What kind of gameplay loop would that create? You sit and dodge a monster forever to get max rewards? That sounds awful.

Speed is the ultimate playing field. There is no way to cheat speed. More efficient = better.

Why would it be any other way? So that worse players feel they are missing out on less? Then what's the point in being better? What's the point in making a strong character if it's all the same?

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

How so when that was literally my experience and how I felt playing with crossbows? Are you trying to tell me how I should feel or what?

Mate, it's not real feedback because it doesn't have any substance. You just make a general blanket lazy statement. That is not a description of an experience. It is just what you wanna say to me now.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 a écrit :

Here's a fun fact, my fave skill from crossbows both visually, and thematically is Plasma Blast. Yet, I can't really use it due to the systematic problems the game has.

That is actually a great start on some positive feedback. Give Plasma Blast some better QOL buffs so it feels good to use.

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AverBeg7#1689 a écrit :

Give Plasma Blast some better QOL buffs so it feels good to use.

Can you be more specific? What do you mean by feels good? And what QOL buffs do you mean? Explain. :)