The GGG / TenCent "Vision" Needs Glasses. (Video Act 3 Cruel Rootdredge v Cold Huntress)

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bewilder2#0356 a écrit :

People that saying its "skill issue", "bad build", "bad gear", just prove OP point that this game is a complete mess of action-combat wanna be.

A "skill issue" implies that the content should be cleared in reasonable amount of time, without having significant upgrades in gear before interacting with that content, with ALL TYPES of archetype.

A "bad build" "bad gear" implies that the game is more about gear and build rather than skill.

So which one is it ? Of course its build / gear and the "skill" that is needed is not how you play the fight sequence mostly, but rather the knowledge about the build and gear you are using.

With trade gear and obviously better skill gem, the boss will die in seconds without needing to know what its doing.

And this happens on all weapon skills and to an extent, ascendancies. Only a handful skill gems are worth enough the investment while the rest are just there as decoration. To determine the worthiness of skill gems, it will be measured based on speed / efficiency because that is the right way to play the game, since that is the only variable that yield quantifiable result : Divine per hour or time to clear maps + looting with juiced contents.

For sure that players can choose to play non-META, not fast and inefficient build. But don't be surprised when playing that kind of build doesn't get loot as much and as fast as META / Fast / Efficient build, and in result, have lower purchasing power in the market.

1. Its a video of someone whos made a complete garbage build where they are doing no damage while at the same time failing to dodge roll basicly every mechanic.

Telling him that his problem is skill related does in no way prove his point.

2. Depends on what your definition of skill or skill issue is.

-Being able to make a good build
-Knowing what gear pieces to use, how to get them and what equipment fits well together
-Knowing boss/mob mechanics
-Being able to avoid or play around mechanics

Are all related to what I would call "Skill" in this game.

If someone says they cant get past act 1 and I say its a skill issue because hes using a white lvl 1 weapon he got in the first zone, that wouldnt prove his point.

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Nyon#6673 a écrit :

1. Its a video of someone whos made a complete garbage build where they are doing no damage while at the same time failing to dodge roll basicly every mechanic.

Telling him that his problem is skill related does in no way prove his point.

2. Depends on what your definition of skill or skill issue is.

-Being able to make a good build
-Knowing what gear pieces to use, how to get them and what equipment fits well together
-Knowing boss/mob mechanics
-Being able to avoid or play around mechanics

Are all related to what I would call "Skill" in this game.

If someone says they cant get past act 1 and I say its a skill issue because hes using a white lvl 1 weapon he got in the first zone, that wouldnt prove his point.

It seems to be we have different way of looking what the "Vision" is. And your points seems to be more directed toward "skills as knowledge" of game mechanic, which is fine and I agree with it.

The video deliberately made like that, with whatever skills, whatever gears, whatever build, to try to plays out the "tactical and meaningful combat" that the Vision tries to push forward. And that is the result. Even if he fails all those mechanics, but if he play the "correct" build, all those mechanics become irrelevant because the boss will just die before doing anything threatening. And its back the point that the Vision is just not it.

Builds / gears / skill gems should not supersede the hierarchy or have the same position as individual skill in playing the game, in the equation of making tactical and meaningful combat. But that is not what happen.

If its truly about making meaningful and tactical combat, the boss wouldn't spawn numerous amount of adds constantly while itself also casting skills to threaten the player. It would be a phase where the boss invulnerable and to make the boss able to be damaged, you need to deal with the mechanic of summoning adds. The fight design has to have a simple but solid foundation that covers all type of possibility of how players play-style, or what kind of skill gems combination, that will not be unfair to certain type of play-style or archetype.

But the reality of the game, is that there is no meaningful and tactical combat. Its just basically just the same like PoE 1. Play the correct build, be fast and efficient.

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bewilder2#0356 a écrit :

People that saying its "skill issue", "bad build", "bad gear", just prove OP point that this game is a complete mess of action-combat wanna be.

A "skill issue" implies that the content should be cleared in reasonable amount of time, without having significant upgrades in gear before interacting with that content, with ALL TYPES of archetype.

A "bad build" "bad gear" implies that the game is more about gear and build rather than skill.

So which one is it ? Of course its build / gear and the "skill" that is needed is not how you play the fight sequence mostly, but rather the knowledge about the build and gear you are using.

With trade gear and obviously better skill gem, the boss will die in seconds without needing to know what its doing.

And this happens on all weapon skills and to an extent, ascendancies. Only a handful skill gems are worth enough the investment while the rest are just there as decoration. To determine the worthiness of skill gems, it will be measured based on speed / efficiency because that is the right way to play the game, since that is the only variable that yield quantifiable result : Divine per hour or time to clear maps + looting with juiced contents.

For sure that players can choose to play non-META, not fast and inefficient build. But don't be surprised when playing that kind of build doesn't get loot as much and as fast as META / Fast / Efficient build, and in result, have lower purchasing power in the market.

It's a bit of a mix of both really. If you have literally no skill at the game and you're face-tanking bosses and not dodging any mechanics you're going to die, but you can mitigate that by gearing up/leveling up. Also if you have no understanding of builds and you go into a fight with terrible gear you're also going to die, but you can mitigate that by being more skillful and avoiding more of damage by moving out of the way.

I've gone into fights undergeared, but my understanding of when I should dodge and so on was good enough that I simply avoided getting hit, so I won (talking of Jamanra, I've got that fight down pat rn, and I recently defeated them with just ED and about half the gear I should have had because I was switching up my build, but I didn't realize that many of the things I was planning to wear were too high level, so I just thought I'd give the fight a go and maybe level up if I failed, but I didn't) and I've also had fights where I get myself overleveled so it doesn't matter if I mess up everything (also Jamanra actually, but when I first encountered them and I didn't know the mechanics, lol).

Most of the skill gems are way better than most people think when combined properly with other skills, and I am very convinced that the playerbase hasn't come close to finding all the OP combos that exist right now, let alone the ones that will exist as more skills get added.

In the first attempt of this person's video for example, they used the parry/fangs of frost combo once or twice I think? When they did they didn't use whirlwind to make use of the chilled ground, and they didn't use elemental sunder at all. They ran around spamming fangs of frost in a way that was so inefficient that I have to wonder if they were trying to make it look worse than it is on purpose. I'm playing a build that uses glacial spear/elemental sunder and parry/fangs of frost in t15s rn, I just got my fourth ascendancy a few days ago and if it ever looked like this (maybe it did at certain points when I was figuring things out?) I would say that it was my own damn fault instead of blaming the game. You don't need to be a god gamer for that, you just need the humility to say that sometimes you have things to learn.

Also, regarding your comments about divs per hour, I appreciate that this might be fun for you, but for me that would be a miserable experience. I basically think that fights should be fun in and of themselves, and if I need loot to make a fight feel rewarding then I'm obviously not having fun. Certainly if the fight ends in a few seconds so I don't see any of the boss' mechanics I'm not having fun, but that's pretty much the ideal experience for the best divs/hour, isn't it? What if they just added a button in hideout which randomly gives you divs/hour at a rate that's slightly better than farming any other content? Wouldn't that automatically be better by this logic? I don't care if I have lower purchasing power in the market, lol; I just need enough to be able to get my builds up to t15s and to be able to handle pinnacles, and you don't need the best gear out there to do that.

I don't care if he's doing constellations or making a scene from the Teddy-Bear Picnic with this passive tree.
Even if it's not optimal, it should absolutely, without a doubt, get you through the campaign.

Endgame is a different story. If you're going to progress there, then you should be optimizing.

Then again, you shouldn't be criticizing too harshly. If they would stop trying to market this like a live release and actually get to work on skills, you might have a point at poking fun at this guy.
Take glacial cascade for example. This should be a viable skill (if leveled up) at any level. It should be on par with storm wave. The difference should be what works for your play style and build.
Instead, glacial cascade is downright awful.
And it's just left in the game.
Untouched.
But hey, they finally nerfed that OP wind dancer.

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Skyvortex#7923 a écrit :

I don't care if he's doing constellations or making a scene from the Teddy-Bear Picnic with this passive tree.
Even if it's not optimal, it should absolutely, without a doubt, get you through the campaign.

Endgame is a different story. If you're going to progress there, then you should be optimizing.

Then again, you shouldn't be criticizing too harshly. If they would stop trying to market this like a live release and actually get to work on skills, you might have a point at poking fun at this guy.
Take glacial cascade for example. This should be a viable skill (if leveled up) at any level. It should be on par with storm wave. The difference should be what works for your play style and build.
Instead, glacial cascade is downright awful.
And it's just left in the game.
Untouched.
But hey, they finally nerfed that OP wind dancer.

Just to be clear, I'm not making fun of this person's gameplay. As I said, maybe my gameplay looks this bad at times when I'm figuring things out. However, if that's the case I'm not blaming the game, and I am totally making fun of their attitude towards the game.

Games are always going to be too hard for some people and too easy for others; there's no reason why it should be easy for this person except if that's what the devs want, which it isn't. Fortunately there are many other games that would be suitable for someone with no interest in learning the kinds of game mechanics that PoE 2 presents us with.

Fangs of frost is a viable skill if you use it right. Same with glacial cascade. "Untouched" you say, lol. Have you ever tried reading it? Did you know there's a way to deal 350% more damage with it now? Stop blaming the game because you don't like to read, lol.

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Kalistri#2788 a écrit :

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Skyvortex#7923 a écrit :

I don't care if he's doing constellations or making a scene from the Teddy-Bear Picnic with this passive tree.
Even if it's not optimal, it should absolutely, without a doubt, get you through the campaign.

Endgame is a different story. If you're going to progress there, then you should be optimizing.

Then again, you shouldn't be criticizing too harshly. If they would stop trying to market this like a live release and actually get to work on skills, you might have a point at poking fun at this guy.
Take glacial cascade for example. This should be a viable skill (if leveled up) at any level. It should be on par with storm wave. The difference should be what works for your play style and build.
Instead, glacial cascade is downright awful.
And it's just left in the game.
Untouched.
But hey, they finally nerfed that OP wind dancer.

Just to be clear, I'm not making fun of this person's gameplay. As I said, maybe my gameplay looks this bad at times when I'm figuring things out. However, if that's the case I'm not blaming the game, and I am totally making fun of their attitude towards the game.

Games are always going to be too hard for some people and too easy for others; there's no reason why it should be easy for this person except if that's what the devs want, which it isn't. Fortunately there are many other games that would be suitable for someone with no interest in learning the kinds of game mechanics that PoE 2 presents us with.

Fangs of frost is a viable skill if you use it right. Same with glacial cascade. "Untouched" you say, lol. Have you ever tried reading it? Did you know there's a way to deal 350% more damage with it now? Stop blaming the game because you don't like to read, lol.

350% x 0
It's garbage.
Also, don't conflate "hard" with time consuming. So many people get this wrong.
Furthermore, any "difficulty" this game has is completely negated by gear.

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bewilder2#0356 a écrit :

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Nyon#6673 a écrit :

1. Its a video of someone whos made a complete garbage build where they are doing no damage while at the same time failing to dodge roll basicly every mechanic.

Telling him that his problem is skill related does in no way prove his point.

2. Depends on what your definition of skill or skill issue is.

-Being able to make a good build
-Knowing what gear pieces to use, how to get them and what equipment fits well together
-Knowing boss/mob mechanics
-Being able to avoid or play around mechanics

Are all related to what I would call "Skill" in this game.

If someone says they cant get past act 1 and I say its a skill issue because hes using a white lvl 1 weapon he got in the first zone, that wouldnt prove his point.

It seems to be we have different way of looking what the "Vision" is. And your points seems to be more directed toward "skills as knowledge" of game mechanic, which is fine and I agree with it.

The video deliberately made like that, with whatever skills, whatever gears, whatever build, to try to plays out the "tactical and meaningful combat" that the Vision tries to push forward. And that is the result. Even if he fails all those mechanics, but if he play the "correct" build, all those mechanics become irrelevant because the boss will just die before doing anything threatening. And its back the point that the Vision is just not it.

Builds / gears / skill gems should not supersede the hierarchy or have the same position as individual skill in playing the game, in the equation of making tactical and meaningful combat. But that is not what happen.

If its truly about making meaningful and tactical combat, the boss wouldn't spawn numerous amount of adds constantly while itself also casting skills to threaten the player. It would be a phase where the boss invulnerable and to make the boss able to be damaged, you need to deal with the mechanic of summoning adds. The fight design has to have a simple but solid foundation that covers all type of possibility of how players play-style, or what kind of skill gems combination, that will not be unfair to certain type of play-style or archetype.

But the reality of the game, is that there is no meaningful and tactical combat. Its just basically just the same like PoE 1. Play the correct build, be fast and efficient.

You are forming your argument very well and I think in general there is a valid point there. I just dont think its applicable here.
And I wont sit here and debate that this is the best boss fight ever designed but the reality is that the boss spawns adds that you have to deal with, and if his build does close to no damage and he has to hit each white mob 6 times hes gonna get swarmed and it will be a nightmare.

He should be alot stronger at the point where he reaches that boss. Which means that hes made poor gear / build choices while getting there. And while the boss fight might still be doable with a bad build / bad gear then that would require a good understanding of the mechanics and how to avoid them, which is also absent from this video.

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Skyvortex#7923 a écrit :

I don't care if he's doing constellations or making a scene from the Teddy-Bear Picnic with this passive tree.
Even if it's not optimal, it should absolutely, without a doubt, get you through the campaign.

Endgame is a different story. If you're going to progress there, then you should be optimizing.

Then again, you shouldn't be criticizing too harshly. If they would stop trying to market this like a live release and actually get to work on skills, you might have a point at poking fun at this guy.
Take glacial cascade for example. This should be a viable skill (if leveled up) at any level. It should be on par with storm wave. The difference should be what works for your play style and build.
Instead, glacial cascade is downright awful.
And it's just left in the game.
Untouched.
But hey, they finally nerfed that OP wind dancer.

So your argument is that the baseline should be that you can get trough the campaign nomatter ho bad your build/gear is even if you cant avoid the mechanics?

So I can just make a dogshit build, wear the same white gear throughout the campaign, stand in the fire and I should still be expecting to get trough it?

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Skyvortex#7923 a écrit :

350% x 0
It's garbage.
Also, don't conflate "hard" with time consuming. So many people get this wrong.
Furthermore, any "difficulty" this game has is completely negated by gear.

1. What about the contents of the provided video has any relevance on "time consuming". The boss is obviously too hard for him to handle, time has nothing to do with it.

2. False, there are difficulties outside of gearing. Secondly getting to the point where you have good gear is part of the difficulty. Its an arpg incase you werent aware.

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Kalistri#2788 a écrit :

"

Skyvortex#7923 a écrit :

I don't care if he's doing constellations or making a scene from the Teddy-Bear Picnic with this passive tree.
Even if it's not optimal, it should absolutely, without a doubt, get you through the campaign.

Endgame is a different story. If you're going to progress there, then you should be optimizing.

Then again, you shouldn't be criticizing too harshly. If they would stop trying to market this like a live release and actually get to work on skills, you might have a point at poking fun at this guy.
Take glacial cascade for example. This should be a viable skill (if leveled up) at any level. It should be on par with storm wave. The difference should be what works for your play style and build.
Instead, glacial cascade is downright awful.
And it's just left in the game.
Untouched.
But hey, they finally nerfed that OP wind dancer.

Just to be clear, I'm not making fun of this person's gameplay. As I said, maybe my gameplay looks this bad at times when I'm figuring things out. However, if that's the case I'm not blaming the game, and I am totally making fun of their attitude towards the game.

Games are always going to be too hard for some people and too easy for others; there's no reason why it should be easy for this person except if that's what the devs want, which it isn't. Fortunately there are many other games that would be suitable for someone with no interest in learning the kinds of game mechanics that PoE 2 presents us with.

Fangs of frost is a viable skill if you use it right. Same with glacial cascade. "Untouched" you say, lol. Have you ever tried reading it? Did you know there's a way to deal 350% more damage with it now? Stop blaming the game because you don't like to read, lol.

+1 to comment!

It is true that build and gear choices can trivialize boss fights and mechanics.
But once the OP learns this boss fight and its mechanics, I am confident that by slightly modifying their play style, they can defeat the boss with their initial gear setup and build choices.