Why losing experience on death in Path of Exile 2 is Beneficial

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Radonegsky#6656 a écrit :

By the way, a few numbers.

At what point does the experience penalty start to annoy you?

I'll take it from level 90 (although actually later).

A Level 100 character is at most 11% stronger than a level 90 character.

In fact, this is not the case: at 90 you can already have all the ascendancies, have all the best items, and there is no content level higher than 90 (82 if I'm not mistaken is the maximum).

So most likely, the difference in the strength of level 90 and level 100 for the same builds is less than 5%.

And?

We're talking about a game where if an item rolls 29/30% on a mod it will be 30 divine.

But if it rolls 30/30% on a mod it'll be 300 divine.

We're talking about a game where people want to get that last .1% of power, because it's part of their power fantasy.

People will send hours grinding out content to get currency so they can kill a boss in 99 hits instead of 100.

That last 5-10% power spike would be good for people with poor luck that don't get high ticket item drops and are relying purely on raw currency drops to get gear. It would pad their power level until they could afford gear based power spikes.

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yummysushipjs#7638 a écrit :

And?

We're talking about a game where if an item rolls 29/30% on a mod it will be 30 divine.

But if it rolls 30/30% on a mod it'll be 300 divine.

We're talking about a game where people want to get that last .1% of power, because it's part of their power fantasy.

People will send hours grinding out content to get currency so they can kill a boss in 99 hits instead of 100.

That last 5-10% power spike would be good for people with poor luck that don't get high ticket item drops and are relying purely on raw currency drops to get gear. It would pad their power level until they could afford gear based power spikes.

And... You can draw your own conclusion.

As for the one percent: sounds like a great challenge from nothing for those who want to be the best. There is no urgent need here.

5-10% will not have any effect on a player "with bad luck" (well, there are such people, while others take 95-100 and grind, and he is just has "bad luck").

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yummysushipjs#7638 a écrit :

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Radonegsky#6656 a écrit :

By the way, a few numbers.

At what point does the experience penalty start to annoy you?

I'll take it from level 90 (although actually later).

A Level 100 character is at most 11% stronger than a level 90 character.

In fact, this is not the case: at 90 you can already have all the ascendancies, have all the best items, and there is no content level higher than 90 (82 if I'm not mistaken is the maximum).

So most likely, the difference in the strength of level 90 and level 100 for the same builds is less than 5%.

And?

We're talking about a game where if an item rolls 29/30% on a mod it will be 30 divine.

But if it rolls 30/30% on a mod it'll be 300 divine.

We're talking about a game where people want to get that last .1% of power, because it's part of their power fantasy.

People will send hours grinding out content to get currency so they can kill a boss in 99 hits instead of 100.

That last 5-10% power spike would be good for people with poor luck that don't get high ticket item drops and are relying purely on raw currency drops to get gear. It would pad their power level until they could afford gear based power spikes.

and?

Just because people wanted that, it doesn't mean the game should allow it easily. XP penalty is just part of the challenge for that.

I would understand if it were gating content for casual players, but it doesn't. So there is no harm in it being hard to achieve.

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Puente#5374 a écrit :

Many players express frustration over the experience loss mechanic, feeling that it is punishing and discourages experimentation.

It is often the case in game design as in other parts of life that PERCEIVED punishment is what shapes our experience ultimately, not how "correct" the mechanic is.

The solution is simple as suggested earlier, they could add a cumulative BONUS to experience (and perhaps, rarity) for NOT dying in a map. If you don't die say 10 times consecutively you would acrue +10% Experience Gain.

Then when people die the setback wouldn't be so disappointing, since after you complete just one map, you start acruing the bonus again at 1%. Then 2% etc.

Most importantly you shouldn't have experience REMOVED from the progress bar, this is such an outdated game design. Think about it: a progress bar that is running backwards. What??

Bad experience is bad experience, doesn't matter how "correct" the data is.

An acrued BONUS for NOT dying in maps would alleviate the setback players feel when dying in a map as well as have all the benefits OP outlined : encouraged to play more cautiously to keep your acrued bonus.

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DeF46#3887 a écrit :

The solution is simple as suggested earlier, they could add a cumulative BONUS to experience (and perhaps, rarity) for NOT dying in a map. If you don't die say 10 times consecutively you would acrue +10% Experience Gain.

Then when people die the setback wouldn't be so disappointing, since after you complete just one map, you start acruing the bonus again at 1%. Then 2% etc.

Most importantly you shouldn't have experience REMOVED from the progress bar, this is such an outdated game design. Think about it: a progress bar that is running backwards. What??

Bad experience is bad experience, doesn't matter how "correct" the data is.

An acrued BONUS for NOT dying in maps would alleviate the setback players feel when dying in a map as well as have all the benefits OP outlined : encouraged to play more cautiously to keep your acrued bonus.

+1

Perception is the root of everything.

At the same time, nothing will change in the numbers at all.

I also LOOOOVE being Level 82 and not having my 3rd set of ascendancy points yet.

Can't wait to strive for dying in Sekhemas 10 more times and burn all my "ascendancy enabled" baryas before I get a map config that's not RNG cheesed.

The XP loss combined with 1 attempt on a map is the real double whammy.

Why is XP loss not implemented into campaign? Why is all this crap just dumped onto the player during endgame to make them feel like a sack of crap?

Do the devs hate people who like to have fun playing the game?

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Filmerd#7977 a écrit :

I also LOOOOVE being Level 82 and not having my 3rd set of ascendancy points yet.

Can't wait to strive for dying in Sekhemas 10 more times and burn all my "ascendancy enabled" baryas before I get a map config that's not RNG cheesed.

The XP loss combined with 1 attempt on a map is the real double whammy.

Why is XP loss not implemented into campaign? Why is all this crap just dumped onto the player during endgame to make them feel like a sack of crap?

Do the devs hate people who like to have fun playing the game?

I agree with RNG problems at 4 trials sekhemas (75+). But 60+? It is just annoying and time consuming but it is easy even without luck, specially once you get 75% honour resist through relics. Even more overleveled at 82. Don't wanna be toxic, but come on...

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Filmerd#7977 a écrit :

Do the devs hate people who like to have fun playing the game?

Are we playing the same game? I got my 6 points right around this level when playing the most unpopular class (WarBringer). It took 7 attempts, it seems.

Players distribute baria for free, in bulk. The 4th floor is MUCH tougher. But there is a problem of divergence of expectations of GGG and players. There, yes, a design error, in my opinion.

In any case, the problems with deaths and experiences are clearly not related to the 3rd floor of Sekhema. (that's not to mention that people in Seckhema have a problem with honor, not death.)

And by the way, Sekhema is quite a good place to level up - not difficult content, a lot of experience, there are no strange modifications like on maps.

thanks for everyone for participating in a discussion ! all points are valid

Agree with GeoFruck, the XP loss doesn't fit right now because of so many other problems. IMO, same could be said for respec cost and no uncut gems(all types) available at the vendor. The game should take a very relaxed stance with regards to player experimentation. It should openly support and stop punishing it.

All these things could be changed later in EA. Granted, it would probably cause a swell of hate towards the game at the time but the experience for most players would not be a poor one when things are working in harmony.

That said, even right now I don't see XP loss as a leading gripe. All the other losses from death are far worse and give the "ragequit" feeling to so many players.