Why losing experience on death in Path of Exile 2 is Beneficial

The many death penalties actually makes the game more bland.
And as mentioned above, not just xp loss. You lose full progress: keystone, special events of the map, etc...

You expect xp loss encourages creative thinking.
In reality majority of players are lazy.
It funnels players to play the meta only. Why do you think 40% of the players play the same build? Not class. BUILD!

And instead of trying out new builds, learning things they just starts grinding low level keystones.

The only time they will be riskier once they level up, because that point there's not much to lose.

You think people will learn?
How can you learn a bossfight that you see the first time. Yeah... maybe if its your n-th character, but casual players wont have all ascendencies high level. They will play a different game.
So what will they do?
- grinding known content for overleveling
- play the same meta as anyone else (which is good for itemfarmers and maybe real money transaction black markets because the "only valid meta items" are hyperinflated)
- they wont learn the boss fight: they will google it, or youtube it.

But here's Josh Strifes stream about this:
https://youtu.be/5H16ixwysA0?si=rsxDkzb5e6uPA_tJ

XP loss on death is one of the worst design decisions I've ever seen in my 48 years of gaming.

Period.

End of story.

There's nothing "thrilling" about fighting a boss hoping you don't lose hours of progress.

There's nothing "exciting" about being 1-shot from off screen by a random rare configured to be a hard counter to your build.

XP loss on death should be restricted ONLY to ruthless mode.

Standard league should, at the very least, make omens prevent any xp loss on death.

"

yummysushipjs#7638 a écrit :

There's nothing "thrilling" about fighting a boss hoping you don't lose hours of progress.

That was your choice to fight that boss, no? if you're worried about losing exp, perhaps avoid boss fights.

"

yummysushipjs#7638 a écrit :

There's nothing "exciting" about being 1-shot from off screen by a random rare configured to be a hard counter to your build.

There are only 3x types of damage in this game, phys / ele / chaos
You have to invest in defensive layers against these types of damages, otherwise you will be 1-shot whether it's off screen or not.

XP loss would be so much easier to digest if the experience gains weren't so low. Currently my survivability is hard capped by my gear. I am already 30% below resistance caps and can't risk taking another 10% penalty. I identify tons of gear and slam plenty of solid bases with orbs and can't get the numbers to budge. Crafting is downright awful which plays a huge part in all of this for players not engaging in the trade system like myself.

Tonight I spent 1.5 hours grinding a single level and playing it mostly safe fighting enemies 2-3 levels below my own. Now that wasn't pure raiding because I attempted some crafting between each run, but it took me 7 maps to go from level 72 to level 73 on my Titan. During the campaign I was 4-5 levels over each zone and gained levels much more regularly, but now at endgame to levels have all but dried up.

So the game wants to take bigger risks for less gains and the possibility of big losses. Each death extends the amount of maps needed to level and making my way through the tree to good nodes at this point means I am basically spending 1-2 hours to gain +5 main stat.

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze at this point and the XP penalty makes it feel even worse.

I had another idea for a compromise. How about if we loose a map we only loose the XP gained in THAT map. We can die and loose xp, we can loose the map in one death, but when we die we only loose the XP gained in THAT map. Hows that for a compromise?

"

Jixa87#1706 a écrit :

"

yummysushipjs#7638 a écrit :

There's nothing "thrilling" about fighting a boss hoping you don't lose hours of progress.

That was your choice to fight that boss, no? if you're worried about losing exp, perhaps avoid boss fights.

"

yummysushipjs#7638 a écrit :

There's nothing "exciting" about being 1-shot from off screen by a random rare configured to be a hard counter to your build.

There are only 3x types of damage in this game, phys / ele / chaos
You have to invest in defensive layers against these types of damages, otherwise you will be 1-shot whether it's off screen or not.

So I should avoid boss fights that are the only source of a build defining item(s)?

Brilliant game design, you've convinced me!

You can still be 1-shot even with the proper defensive layers. Pretending you can't is disingenuous fanboy nonsense.

Now I'm truly convinced that wasting hours of my time is a good game mechanic.

We should petition GGG to make the XP penalty 100%.

Get to level 99 with 99.99% towards level 100 and make one mistake then BOOM! Days of progress wiped. I mean you only had 40k EHP when you really needed 41k EHP.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

- Encouraging player skill development

In theory. In practice, not much to develop in poe combat, it retains ultra fast resolution and poor visual clarity. No one will strain their eyes 24/7 trying to discern another corpse explosion in this mess. Eventually attention will withdrawn and that's why another oneshot happens.

Furthermore, you have to RNG your maps heavily in order to get loot, which means you have no idea about mob dps until they hit you a lot, it changes every map.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

- Maintaining meaningful progression
- Ensuring a sense of challenge and accomplishment

Highly personified. Many people would instead be happy enough to progress to level 100, and beat all pinnacle bosses without regrinding every attempt a few days.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

- Preserving game balance

What does game balance have to do with it? Balance controls the average probability of dying, not effects of death. Both Poe 1 and 2 have no balance anyway, build disparity is nuts.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

- Better game knowledge – Learning enemy attack patterns and boss mechanics.
- Stronger defensive strategies – Investing in resistances, mitigation, and sustain.
- Improved reaction time and positioning – Avoiding lethal damage rather than just stacking DPS.

If player is interested, player will try to do all these without any penalties as well. You'd be surprised how every game has players highly skilled in it, without having to beat them with a stick first:)

At the same time, if player is not interested in tryharding and just wishes to see the content once, no amount of penalties will beat them into submission, they will just leave and carry negative feedback about you and your game.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

Without a meaningful penalty for death, players could brute-force their way through content with no incentive to adapt. Instead, each death becomes a learning opportunity, making every victory feel earned.

Highly personified, same as above. Players have different incentives and it is their own business how they wish to spend their leisure time. Presuming to enforce control over why they had come to your game is nuts. Level 100 can also "feel earned" for some.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

x Players could mindlessly rush through encounters.

Addressed above, players will figure out what they want without any wise Vision.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

x Boss fights would feel like a repetitive grind rather than an achievement.

They aren't already? People buy boss fragments and spam them for their loot. Boss replayability is governed by rewards, penalty is just "ugh" factor. People just do it at 0% exp.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

x The game would lose its signature high-stakes tension.

Lol, this one is true. If you consider it a point of pride for a game, that is:)

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ Boss fights become thrilling and rewarding instead of trivial.

You mean instaphasing bosses doesn't feel trivial? No one will spam bosses without dps to do it comfortably, people are not masochists.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ Players must think strategically about engaging in difficult content.

Cool, you mean wait until you either gain a level or lose all exp?:) What else "strategy" is there?

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ Victory feels meaningful because risk was involved.

Addressed above, players will figure out what is meaningful for them without any wise Vision.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

- Players could over-level and bypass difficult encounters.

Man... poe is all about "bypassing" everything with sheer dps, and extra passive is just one of building bricks here, not the largest. Not related to penalties.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

- Challenge would become meaningless, making progression feel hollow.

Addressed above, you repeat same thing 4 times by now:) Players will figure out what is meaningful for them without any wise Vision.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

- The game would become grind-first, skill-second.

Poe is already grind-first because of very slow gear progression. "Skill" was addressed above, your very first point.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ Players must engage with content at the right difficulty rather than grinding past it.

You mean if penalty got removed, everyone would flood T15 maps with naked characters? Players already try to get the most rewards with what they have. Diablo allows changing difficulties at will, and no one sits at lowest all the time.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ The game maintains consistent challenge throughout progression.

Not related to penalties.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ Reaching high levels feels like an achievement, not just a matter of time spent.

Addressed above, 5th time, lol. Grinding loot already makes poe a time hog.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ Encourages investment in life, energy shield, block, and resistances.
✔ Rewards players for using defensive flasks, movement skills, and mitigation.
✔ Promotes build diversity instead of just a glass-cannon meta.

The only valid point you make, which is why I can understand penalty in race events. However, this is where RNG comes in, poe implementation twists this concept into scam. Mere "investment" won't save you from death, you need total immunity against every threat in the game.

All those years and glass cannons are still more numerous than immortal tanks, do you see why? People make this decision on their own, because they judge this more effective approach. When GGG tunes down their crazy RNG and burst damage on both mobs and players, we can talk about defenses. For now poe is about who has bigger dps.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

x Players would max out too quickly, leading to faster burnout.

Lol, here you basically admit this whole post orginiated from some smart CM:) Only devs would consider this a problem, as they need to hook and milk people forever.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

x High-level items and rewards would become devalued due to overpopulation of high-level players.

overpopupation of high-level players is bad thing now?:O You mean it is instead normal when we have 0.1% playerbase running mirror shops and the rest ferrying RMT money to them?

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

x Progression would feel less meaningful, as everyone could reach max level effortlessly.

6th time, addressed above. Players will figure out what is meaningful for them without any wise Vision.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ Leveling remains a long-term goal, giving players a reason to keep playing.

Numerous threads of "I quit because of exp penalty" disagree with you.

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ The economy stays balanced, maintaining item value and rarity.

A what? how is it even related? If everything, current situation says the opposite. Only 0.5% masochists dominate all content and economy is already busted:)

"

Puente#5374 a écrit :

✔ Reaching level 100 remains a prestigious achievement rather than an expectation.

Yeah, elitism through the roof here. Players will figure out what is meaningful for them without any wise Vision.

Overall, the style, details, and quality of this post makes me suspect it is initiative of GGG CM:) All the myths GGG tries to promote packed into concentrated brainwashing punch.

"

Jixa87#1706 a écrit :

That was your choice to fight that boss, no? if you're worried about losing exp, perhaps avoid boss fights.


There are only 3x types of damage in this game, phys / ele / chaos
You have to invest in defensive layers against these types of damages, otherwise you will be 1-shot whether it's off screen or not.

Stupid and condescending post

Maybe casual players who don't want to do anything and want the game to play itself will go tap a hamster, what do you think? Or play the amazing Diablo 4, which lacks any kind of challenge. Or will we still try to whine and force poe 2 developers to make a mindless bimbam grind-game?
p.s mostly agree with ts. I don't have any problems with exp loss

"

Jixa87#1706 a écrit :

That was your choice to fight that boss, no? if you're worried about losing exp, perhaps avoid boss fights.

Masterful trolling, bravo. I'd expect nothing less from someone with so many forum badges.