Unpopular opinion : I like the crafting system of PoE2

What crafting? It's just a thinly veiled gacha system.

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AintCare#6513 a écrit :

lol trying the passive aggressive approach i see. anyway, rarity/odds is non-issue, something can be rare or 'hard to get' and be also part of everyone progression. currently most of those things have no progress feedback as they rely mostly on binary/boolean outcome. so you don't get a sense of progress. this is what i am stating here. it has nothing to do with how much time it takes or how unlikely the outcome is (those tow are the same thing) but rather if you can sense that you are getting there. its statistics vs perception/illusion. providing a user with feedback while not adjusting the actual odds will feel better. great example is poe2 6link vs poe1 6link. both rare, in poe1 if we ignore bench as it was years ago 6L not even guaranteed, yet poe2 feels worse/unfair because there is no sense of progress, even tho the orb itself is 100% deterministic. and none of this have to do with time taken- this is just yet another user perception/illusion that many fall into.

Fair enough. I believe I understand the argument and it does have merit.

I also like the PoE1 example of trying to 6 link something. That does hit home esp. with the "perception / illusion" that you alluded to.

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Legoury#0138 a écrit :

For me, its so weird that we almost all recognize how amazing GGG is doing to creating their game and communicate with us, and at the same moment, have the feeling almost all reviews here and on reddit are just negative about game and devs... Thats why I made this post initially, to let a place where people who like PoE2 could express their opinion, and devs to have a chance reading some positive reviews about their game. Btw, Im not here to make some "fake" positive review, I really feel the crafting system is good and Im enjoying it.

To be fair I think most people will stop to give feedback on things that seem to need work [I.E. negative issues] as opposed to things that are working well.


As for the quality of PoE2 I said it early and I believe it now. I'm surprised that it's as good as it is.

Sure I have some MAJOR misgivings [esp. with endgame] BUT if the campaign is any indication I think POE2 has some solid potential to become THE ARPG which others will be measured by.


FYI: I would prefer a "hell difficulty" of the current campaign as opposed to doing any more mapping. The campaign is & was more fun -- at least to me.

YMMV

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KingAlamar#4071 a écrit :

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AintCare#6513 a écrit :

lol trying the passive aggressive approach i see. anyway, rarity/odds is non-issue, something can be rare or 'hard to get' and be also part of everyone progression. currently most of those things have no progress feedback as they rely mostly on binary/boolean outcome. so you don't get a sense of progress. this is what i am stating here. it has nothing to do with how much time it takes or how unlikely the outcome is (those tow are the same thing) but rather if you can sense that you are getting there. its statistics vs perception/illusion. providing a user with feedback while not adjusting the actual odds will feel better. great example is poe2 6link vs poe1 6link. both rare, in poe1 if we ignore bench as it was years ago 6L not even guaranteed, yet poe2 feels worse/unfair because there is no sense of progress, even tho the orb itself is 100% deterministic. and none of this have to do with time taken- this is just yet another user perception/illusion that many fall into.

Fair enough. I believe I understand the argument and it does have merit.

I also like the PoE1 example of trying to 6 link something. That does hit home esp. with the "perception / illusion" that you alluded to.

nice, a positive interaction on a forum! regarding 6linking- i made this thread a while back and now updated it:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3699401/page/1#p25932273

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AintCare#6513 a écrit :

nice, a positive interaction on a forum! regarding 6linking- i made this thread a while back and now updated it:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3699401/page/1#p25932273

Well I did mention that maybe we should stop throwing poo so I might as well follow my own advice :)

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dwqrf#0717 a écrit :

Multiple Reddit and PoE forum threads have overwhelmingly negative responses ; period.


That doesn't mean much and it's not really relevant informations. Just a proof that haters are quite loud.

Exactly. That's all that needs to be said here. They are negative towards ANYITHNG that isn't same as PoE1.

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DemonikPath#1311 a écrit :

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dwqrf#0717 a écrit :

Multiple Reddit and PoE forum threads have overwhelmingly negative responses ; period.


That doesn't mean much and it's not really relevant informations. Just a proof that haters are quite loud.

Exactly. That's all that needs to be said here. They are negative towards ANYITHNG that isn't same as PoE1.

+1

As a newcomer-thats exactly how i see old community of POE1 after a couple of days after i started to play POE2.

And whenever you point that out-all you hear-"ok, newbie, you must play poe1 to see how it must be"

But no, i must not. Thats a new game, and GGG is TRYING different approach.

I couldn't agree more the Poe2 crafting system has been great for me as a SSF player and I used it all the way from act 3 to endgame and still constantly use it to progress my gear and it's made the game experience way smoother and more fun than any of the poe1 SSF leagues I've played.

I think the problem with contrasting opinions on this is that SSF players are looking at all the currency drops to progress there gear as you see any half decent Rare and can exalt or chaos it to try remove the 1 troll stat for something good or collect the Magic bases of items your build use's and regal it and see if it's worth continuing investment and trade players just ignore what currency does and collect it to spend on trade sites.

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Thronar#4773 a écrit :

I couldn't agree more the Poe2 crafting system has been great for me as a SSF player and I used it all the way from act 3 to endgame and still constantly use it to progress my gear and it's made the game experience way smoother and more fun than any of the poe1 SSF leagues I've played.

I think the problem with contrasting opinions on this is that SSF players are looking at all the currency drops to progress there gear as you see any half decent Rare and can exalt or chaos it to try remove the 1 troll stat for something good or collect the Magic bases of items your build use's and regal it and see if it's worth continuing investment and trade players just ignore what currency does and collect it to spend on trade sites.

I see a lot of complaints about crafting from SSF players. Has nothing to do with trade. In fact I see it more from SSF players. Just people being used to overly generous games which don't have any kind of longevity (that includes PoE1 for people with the knowledge, for everyone else PoE1 crafting is arcane knowledge and at most they would follow some guide with specific crafting steps).

I don't play SSF, but I do a lot of crafting in PoE1 both for my characters and for profit. In my opinion Path of Exile 1 has the best crafting system out there because it actually feels like I'm doing something. Knowledge of item tags, interaction of different mechanics, and even just what mods are possible can all help create amazing items. However the crafting in PoE 2 failed on a fundamental level, resulting in not just a restricted crafting ability (everyone with a brain was expecting that) but removing all agency in favor of a glorified slot machine. This isn't as simple as "it'll be good once they add some mechanics" and this is why:

1. They removed the crafting bench
The crafting bench is a fundamental part of not only high level crafting, but also a way to help get through the campaign. GGG knows this which is why they have the mission introducing the crafting bench to you once you meet Helena. Before launch of EA we had been shown footage of the crafting bench in PoE 2, with a slightly different function. For anyone who doesn't remember, you could essentially build up mod tiers by breaking down items with that mod. For one reason or the other the idea was scrapped, and the crafting bench was entirely removed from PoE2. Now if you have a pretty good item that just needs some resists, you better get lucky or have the right rune.

2. They decided to focus on bases in the worst way possible
A good base is everything for a crafting project. In PoE 1 for almost all crafts you get the base you want and you're done with that step. Even if you get unlucky or screw up, you can scour and start over. In PoE 2 the focus in clearly on a "one craft per base" type of system. Sure you can mix some mechanics with essences and omens, but even if we include those mechanics they don't make up for the removal of alterations and scours. In the hypothetical craft lets say I'm playing Spark and want plus levels on my amulet. In PoE 2 the odds aren't terrible if I'm willing to settle. Any level of proj or spell levels should occur within 76 transmutes. In PoE 1 I would only be satisfied with +1 level of all skill gems on the first step (because I can guarantee +1 lightning in a future step) which will take on average over 1500 alterations. A surface level assessment of this tells you that clearly it's better to craft in PoE 2, but that's only because this obfuscates the steps necessary to start the craft. In PoE 1 I pick up a base of the ground and scour it, or perhaps buy a fractured base to make future steps easier. Once I have the base I can put on some music, hop on a discord call, or whatever as I roll the item. In PoE 2 I have to pick up every single base that I might want for the craft and toss them in a quad tab. When I have enough I go through them all, hope I hit two serviceable mods, and when I don't I have to go through the infuriating process known as the reforging bench. If GGG wants to prevent players from turning magic and rare items white I could learn to live with it, but why bottleneck people by making us trade them in three at a time?

3. The reduction of the ability to craft is directly tied to the market.
Not so much a point about GGG (unless they didn't realize this, which I really hope they did) but removing all meaningful crafting is the cause of the inflation in the market. Let's go back a few years when the Exalt/Divine flip happened. It wasn't GGG saying "Divines are now more expensive, and Exalts are just for slamming" that caused them to change in price, it was how they're consumed by the players. GGG changed all metacrafting bench mods to require divs instead of exalts and removed the divine recipe. That alone makes divs more valuable as the bench removes them from the economy. In PoE 2 at the moment it is so much more efficient to just trade for an item, than to craft it yourself. Even picking up and IDing bases is more efficient which is not where crafting should ever be. This results in a big chunk of the player base generating a bunch of currency while mapping, but not feeling like they have anything to do with it except trade to other players. This could be fixed by having a simple currency sink like the map device is to chaos in PoE 1

TL;DR removing scours and alts was a terrible decision and they removed the most new player friendly crafting mechanic from PoE 1. I wouldn't even call what they have in EA a crafting system, because after probably over a hundred hours and watching a few videos of top crafters, I don't feel like I actually know anything more than I did on day 1.