Unpopular opinion : I like the crafting system of PoE2

What are you smoking? Just quit it, its bad for you!

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Sirius_Man#0785 a écrit :

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Every "problem" you mentioned isnt' a problem and what makes crafting in PoE2 good. Isntead of bloated garbage that PoE1 has. Please go back to PoE1.

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DemonikPath#1311 a écrit :

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Sirius_Man#0785 a écrit :

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Every "problem" you mentioned isnt' a problem and what makes crafting in PoE2 good. Isntead of bloated garbage that PoE1 has. Please go back to PoE1.

Saying 'go back to PoE1' isn’t an argument—it's just avoiding the discussion. If PoE2's crafting is better, explain why..

What makes pure RNG spam and less player control good design?

Depth and bloat aren’t the same thing, and removing agency isn’t an improvement. If you actually have a counterpoint, let’s hear it!

the system has serious flaws that make it worse, not better. Here’s why:

🔹 Less Player Agency = Less Crafting – PoE1’s crafting allowed progression toward a goal. PoE2 just makes you throw currency into RNG with no real control. That’s not depth—that’s a slot machine.

🔹 No Middle-Ground Crafting – In PoE1, you had fossils, essences, bench crafts, and Harvest to guide the process. PoE2 removed all that, so you either get lucky or you don’t. How is that better?

🔹 Exalts as the Core Crafting Currency is Bad – Exalts were barely used for crafting in PoE1 because they were too expensive and random. Now PoE2 forces them into the system, making crafting feel even more punishing.

🔹 Alchs & Chaos Orbs Are Useless – Chaos rolling gear is worse than just trading, and Alchs have no real value. That means basic crafting isn’t viable anymore.

🔹 Loot-Based Crafting is Worse, Not Better – The idea that PoE2 is ‘loot-driven’ crafting is a myth. You don’t craft gear—you just ID rares and hope for something good than exalt slam them. That’s not a system; that’s gambling.

If you think this system is good, explain why. Just saying ‘PoE1 bad’ isn’t an argument...

Okay you want argumentation, lets do it !!!

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Sirius_Man#0785 a écrit :

🔹 Less Player Agency = Less Crafting – PoE1’s crafting allowed progression toward a goal. PoE2 just makes you throw currency into RNG with no real control. That’s not depth—that’s a slot machine.

I have no idea whats a player agency is. But about the control you have, you think you have more control by using 1500 fusing orb to have a 6L or 3000 alt to have a good T10+ start on blue item ??? In comparaison, you need like 50 normal items to have a T10+ start on it in PoE2, so 50 orb.

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Sirius_Man#0785 a écrit :

🔹 No Middle-Ground Crafting – In PoE1, you had fossils, essences, bench crafts, and Harvest to guide the process. PoE2 removed all that, so you either get lucky or you don’t. How is that better?

Bench craft could be a good add in PoE2 i agree with that, but maybe we would have it in 1.0 ? And again, you argument like other saying things that IS in PoE2. We got essences, omen to craft around. Everybody I read a comment about essences or omens in PoE1, I have the feeling the guy talking didnt even try to craft in PoE2 to say that...

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Sirius_Man#0785 a écrit :

🔹 Exalts as the Core Crafting Currency is Bad – Exalts were barely used for crafting in PoE1 because they were too expensive and random. Now PoE2 forces them into the system, making crafting feel even more punishing.

Exalted barely used in PoE1 ? Scuse me ??? You didnt craft at all to say that. From PoE1 release until like 2020, alt + exalted was the core and only way to craft stuff. People forget that crafting bench is just use to add an affix, but not the best affix possible.
And about how punishing it is, whats the most punishing for you : using thousands of alt + exalted to have an pretty good gear, or using dozens of transmut + regal + exalted ??

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Sirius_Man#0785 a écrit :

🔹 Alchs & Chaos Orbs Are Useless – Chaos rolling gear is worse than just trading, and Alchs have no real value. That means basic crafting isn’t viable anymore.

About alch, I agree with you. Someone pointed its useful for maps. But thats it imo. And chaos or annulment, its better with omen for sure and pretty useful to "finalize" your stuff.

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Sirius_Man#0785 a écrit :

🔹 Loot-Based Crafting is Worse, Not Better – The idea that PoE2 is ‘loot-driven’ crafting is a myth. You don’t craft gear—you just ID rares and hope for something good than exalt slam them. That’s not a system; that’s gambling.

So whats about really good stuff on marketplace ? If you cant craft it and its not loot, who is making it ?
Right now, on my both character, I made some pretty good stuff, by buying stuff to Alva (good magic base and good affix with exalted), with some good magic based looted and sometimes some chaos.

So yeah, I strongly disagree with you and all your "arguments" are irrelevant for me...

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Sirius_Man#0785 a écrit :

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I ain't reading your walls of text. I said it many times already - it's better because it doesn't make ground loot useless, it's better because it's accessible to majority of players, it's better because there is no bloat. It's not perfect, it would be perfect if they removed omens, reworked chaos orb, made annuls a bit more common and adjusted affix weights, in every other sense it's exactly how it should be. You want deterministic crafting system but that completely kills fun in finding loot because then you will never want ground loot, you will just want a base and currency and ignore everything else. Runes are a better replacement for bench. Bench is stupid and shouldn't have existed in PoE1 in the first place. Post Betrayal bench is the most retarded thing that ever existed in PoE other than original Harvest. I wish instead of dealing with harvest fans they'd just give all of them pathofmatths special. PoE1 "crafting" is a convoluted bloated mess, that 99% of players can't use because of extremely high entry investment required + useless knowledge required and it's too powerful so ground loot is completely useless in PoE1.

I like how people dismiss "deterministic" crafting and "ungodly amounts" of resource... but, put up with trading - the MOST deterministic loot acquiring system in the game, where one needs "ungodly amounts" of currency to buy high-end game gear from others.

PoE 2 crafting entry level is bad, mid-range is bad, high-end is so-so because Omens make it "deterministic" and mirror tier is the place where it gets PoE 1 levels of acceptable (but, only rmters are winning something).

Looting anything besides currency from the floor is a waste of time, accumulate currency and using the trade site (which, again, is deterministic AF) is the way to go, which means for the time being there is no thing as "crafting" in PoE 2.

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Fhrek#4437 a écrit :

Looting anything besides currency from the floor is a waste of time

Let me guess, you farm breach. That mechanic is gamebreaking and shouldn't stay in the game.

OP, I appreciate your well-written feedback. I disagree with most of it, but I recognize that you truly did write your thoughts and opinions well, and backed them up with reasonable claims.

I have a few counters though:
1) You claim a few times in responses that crafting in PoE 2 is better than spamming alts in PoE1, because you pick up items instead. I would ask: what stopped you doing exactly this in PoE 1? It was always available...no one ever forced your hand to alt spam. There was a reason: the natural development of the game will continue to make drops more and more obsolete. PoE 2 offers us no counter to this natural progression.

2) You claim (recently) that exalts were used a LOT in crafting in PoE 1. This is true only for the first year or two of the game, BUT you left out a huge caveat: eternal orbs existed. Exalts were only ever used BECAUSE eternal orbs were also used in tandem. If the eternal orb didn't exist, exalts would be used but we'd be in the same problem with PoE 2 crafting....lack of control and a complete reliance on luck. In fact...we know this to be true. The second eternal orbs were removed from the game, the entire playerbase stopped using exalted orbs for crafting. And it wasn't 2020....this was around 2015 or 2016 when exalted orbs stopped being used and instead were exclusively used for metacrafts. Why did this happen? Because eternal orbs effectively "removed" the luck-or-brick aspect of exalted orbs. Luck-or-brick (PoE 2's entire system) just plain isn't crafting. Except in the case of the vaal orb, which WAS it's unique roll within the universe.

3) you wrote "So right now, craft is pretty simple and straight forward, with a part of luck and thats good imo. I think its a good base to have a better craft system than PoE1 is for example."
But....as you also explained later, this is precisely the same base that PoE 1 started with, and changed course for very important reasons: simple and straightforward only works as long as the gear and mods remain simple and straightforward. However, they won't. They simply can't. Also...you claim that only "part" of the process is luck. Transuting = luck. Aug = luck. Regal = luck. Exalt = luck. Chaos = luck. Divine = the only option that has somewhat controllable "luck" via knowing the odds of improvement. The entire process of "crafting" in PoE 2 is currently luck, from dropping the item to finishing the item. There isn't a single part of crafting that isn't entirely reliant on luck.


You are right, your opinion is unpopular. Why do you think that is? There are MANY other SSF players (some of the best and most experienced PoE players) that feel precisely the opposite of your post.
Why?
Because they are experienced enough to recognize that we don't actually have any crafting system. We have a handful of orbs and other paraphernalia that make you think you are crafting but......all you are really doing is a step-by-step complete gamble.

In fact, the entire system might be better if they got rid of orbs entirely and only dropped gold: that way, people could go to the gambler all they wanted. It's exactly the same process, with exactly the same outcomes and player control.

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cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

OP, I appreciate your well-written feedback. I disagree with most of it, but I recognize that you truly did write your thoughts and opinions well, and backed them up with reasonable claims.

I have a few counters though:
1) You claim a few times in responses that crafting in PoE 2 is better than spamming alts in PoE1, because you pick up items instead. I would ask: what stopped you doing exactly this in PoE 1? It was always available...no one ever forced your hand to alt spam. There was a reason: the natural development of the game will continue to make drops more and more obsolete. PoE 2 offers us no counter to this natural progression.

Thats a good question. Personnaly I dont really use to play the same game, specially a "solo" one for a long time. I played PoE1 between 2013-2018 and just made a character in 2022 and I felt bored by the gameplay.
About the natural development which make drops more and more obsolete, its true for every game, specially for PoE1 with deterministic way to craft. I mean, the more random loot are, longer would be the game cause players would be looking for perfect gear. So drops would be less obsolete in PoE2 than they are in poE1.

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cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

2) You claim (recently) that exalts were used a LOT in crafting in PoE 1. This is true BUT you left out a huge caveat: eternal orbs existed. Exalts were only ever used BECAUSE eternal orbs were also used in tandem. If the eternal orb didn't exist, exalts would be used but we'd be in the same problem with PoE 2 crafting....lack of control and a complete reliance on luck. Luck or brick...move on to next item. That isn't crafting.

I dont know the ratio between eternal orb and exalted orb, maybe 1 for 1000 ? In 3000h playing PoE1, I didnt get 1 eternal orb so... Your example is really an anomaly and again, it concerns only a very small minority of players who could craft with it...
And again, I dont know why for you, crafting around ONE item but for thousand of tries, is better than crafting around multiple items for dozens of time. I really cant figure out... Is it because its more simple to loot 1 item to craft around and you are bored to loot multiple items ??? In this game, why dont you ask GGG to have just every max lvl item in a shop, that you would buy to craft around, and another shop with omen, essence and stuff to craft ??? I mean, if looting is boring in a ARPG, what are we supposing to do in such game ???
I mean sometimes I have the feeling we are playing a different game. Im excited to see some rare item looted, specially with high tier, cause I know I could have a good stuff. Same with exalted cause its opportunity for me to craft around some good base I have on my stash. But I have the feeling for players, only divine orb is a pleasant loot for them, they dont care of anything else. In this situation, I can feel how bored you should be playing this game...

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cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

3) you wrote "So right now, craft is pretty simple and straight forward, with a part of luck and thats good imo. I think its a good base to have a better craft system than PoE1 is for example."
But....as you also explained later, this is precisely the same base that PoE 1 started with, and changed course for very important reasons: simple and straightforward only works as long as the gear and mods remain simple and straightforward. However, they won't. They simply can't. Also...you claim that only "part" of the process is luck. Transuting = luck. Aug = luck. Regal = luck. Exalt = luck. Chaos = luck. Divine = the only option that has somewhat controllable "luck" via knowing the odds of improvement. The entire process of "crafting" in PoE 2 is currently luck, from dropping the item to finishing the item. There isn't a single part of crafting that isn't entirely reliant on luck.

Yeah you are right, and I totally understand people that are saying we need some tools to have a more deterministic approach of craft. And I agree with that. For me it was pleasant to craft with such system for 200-300h but I will probably get bored of it if we dont have anything else to have some tools to choice some affix. But again, its a EA and I feel this base of crafting pretty good, more simple than PoE1 and so, accessible for newcomers but as you and others, I hope we would have new tools in next extension of PoE2 and for release

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cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

You are right, your opinion is unpopular. Why do you think that is? There are MANY other SSF players (some of the best and most experienced PoE players) that feel precisely the opposite of your post.
Why?
Because they are experienced enough to recognize that we don't actually have any crafting system. We have a handful of orbs and other paraphernalia that make you think you are crafting but......all you are really doing is a step-by-step complete gamble.

Its true for most of it but not all (I just watch Zizaran and ZiggyD and they dont think exactly like this).
But we would have a discussion about : whats exactly to craft in an ARPG ? And we would have a lot of different definition. For me, if you avoid the random part, its not crafting anymore, its creating stuff.

But the main question is : is the crafting system fun ? Right now, some loud PoE1 voices want people to think its not. But what about me, dozens of other players who said the same on this thread and why hundreds of thousand of players are still playing PoE2 if the crafting and so, the looting part is awful ???

PoE1 old players used to craft in PoE1. They recognize for a newbie, its a total mess and unbearable, and PoE2 is making a great job to simplify it for them. And why cant we have 2 different games, with differents crafting system for different (or same) players ?

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Legoury#0138 a écrit :

But the main question is : is the crafting system fun ? Right now, some loud PoE1 voices want people to think its not. But what about me, dozens of other players who said the same on this thread and why hundreds of thousand of players are still playing PoE2 if the crafting and so, the looting part is awful ???

Sorry but....no. I disagree that this is the main question. This is where so many on these forums lose their arguments. The "fun" trap.

Everything is far more fun now than it will ever be in the future....because its new. Similarly, everything that people find bad are the WORST they will likely ever be right now because they are inexperienced and/or the things will be changed.

However, what is important to the discussion on crafting is NOT the fun aspect: its the functionality. Things can be plenty fun, but dysfunctional game breaking terrible design. This has happened over and over and over again in PoE 1. And each and every time, the "fun" thing had to be patched away because it wasn't functional. Vacuuming spirits to create a game-crashing loot explosion WAS fun. Endless loot and abyss spires in 3.23 WERE fun. Old school HH and un-capped 5way drops WERE fun.....until they weren't. That is precisely the point.

Arguing or debating "fun" is an impossible task. An argument with absolutely no possible way of affecting meaningful change. What will ALWAYS be the most important question is: does it function, and does it function well?

Crafting in PoE 2.....doesn't function well. It's pure gambling. Many might find that "fun" but cannot and will not stand up to future development and game longevity.

Fun is important to consider, but it is NEVER the main question. It can't be.