Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

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Vinsdvalh#0247 a écrit :

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

When did I use the term cancer to quote someone else's post? I mean if you are going to use your assumption even before I answer, what's the point? what's there to discuss? Does my question "trap" you into putting your question down?

Literally the first line of the thread : "This forum section of POE 2 EA has been so obnoxiously cancer to say the least."

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

I see this tactic as a very common thing when it comes to arguments. Someone "assumes" x poster is angry, annoyed, upset or whatever the term you want to use, then someone prowls and follows it up. It doesn't work like that in a proper argument, that is even if you can make one.

The thing is we don't need an argument. It's feedback, we don't care about your argument, we don't care about your opinion when we give feedback, we're not talking to you. Just make your own thread saying you want to change and don't want to be changed, and you know what, good for you you're giving feedback and i'm not gonna go to your thread telling you you're wrong. But making a thread saying people giving their opinion is cancer, is feedback about feedback, not about the game, and it's none of your damn business.

Mate, READ, "When did I use the term cancer to quote someone else's post?" do you comprehend what is the context of cancer in my post? Meaning the forum section per se not "comments". This is a very simple read and comprehend part of the thread, is that so hard to do?

This is what happens when you "assume" and I take it, you do it frequently. I mean why are you even here? Your "assumption" is wrong, your read on the context is wrong, your argument and your replies are borderline "upset". What did you even contribute to the discussion? THIS is a thread I started and you are making something out of nothing. I will ask again, are you even okay?

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

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MrPedez#4934 a écrit :

He is kind of right though. The balance between es and life builds is way off, i think u will find that its damn near impossible to get much more than 3k hp with most builds except warrior/titan. In poe 1 i could easily scale 5k and above with any class while have much more armour than is even possible in poe 2 + the armour equation is almost 2.5 times worse in poe 2. Meanwhile i see ES builds running around with 15-20 k hp having absolutely no problems at all and plenty of options to scale more es in the skill tree while life nodes are completely absent. So in the end its balance that is needed which was expected since its EA and not xp loss on death which is fine. I actually scaled one of my builds in poe 1 above 30k hp

Since armor is in a really bad place right now, I would slightly agree with your take but builds with 80+% block is just on a different level. Like what I said in one of our conversation, watch Steelmage's warcry/totem build that has I think almost 83 or 85% block. Going back to the topic, it doesn't matter if you have 10k hp pool, if you walk to those on death effects, even CI with 14k over ES via grim feast will get destroyed.

Yes and also no. I myself can survive several on death mechanics depending on map mods and type of course and how many overlapping ground effects they spawn. Yes block is really good in many situations but having block cap or even going 83-85% block chance is still just a 85% chance of not getting oneshot when u cant scale ur other defences properly (life/armour in particular). One thing i learned from my 15k+ hours of poe 1 over more than a decade of playing is 1 defence type is not the way u want to go if u want to survive and be really tanky, its layers of different mechanics/defences that does the job. These mechanics seem absent in poe 2 and atm i think u are better of using a cloak of flame + a bit of armour than stacking armour. Life is completely removed from the tree except for a 3% node while there are tons of great es nodes

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dwqrf#0717 a écrit :

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Akedomo#3573 a écrit :

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dwqrf#0717 a écrit :

Negative feedback could be :

"I think the ratio of time spent in maps for this amount of XP in opposition to the risks taken while fighting occasional Uber bosses is slighlty off ; resulting in a much harder leveling for the last 5-10 levels while mainly playing a balanced hybrid defence/offence build in magic to rare maps, with 2-4 affixes, between t12 and t16."


But instead we have :

"Remove XP penalty, it's useless and I hate it. GGG makes all of us lose our time. I can't progress with my glasscanon, I get one shoted by white mobs from offscreen in T18 fully juiced WTF, losing my citadel, map, and all my XP earned in a full week on top of it. It's a trash game, dead in one week time for sure. I'll sue you for wasting my precious time. Freaking no-lives hc egomaniacs elitists ruined again a great casual game with 50yo dumb mecanics. Please nerffff".


Go figure.

The feelings of others matter.

You don't recognize them as valid, which is what the issue is. Wake up. A good game company translates the feelings into changes. It's not up to a player to make suggestions or give feedback in the way you want it to be given. And even when it has, you're still arguing with people. There's tons of your posts in here. It's crazy. Take a break man.


Why does PoE 2 need to be based around grinding? We have PoE 1 that's grind central. Do we really need.. two games to grind? Think about it, because you like grinding, right? Well, grinding two games is really difficult and even more time consuming. Which one will you pick?

It's funny that you mention grinding too, because when games are good. People will play them for decades. Completely as casuals. Just look at DotA, or League. I have 6000 hours in DotA on steam, and I was playing DotA allstars back when it was first coming out in WC3. I never cared to be good at the game, and I still enjoyed it either way.

PoE 2 has no need to be forced into a grinding game category to do well, and defending this stance is basically asking for PoE 1 to be neglected.

If the effective max level for people is 90. Then they can just get rid of the extra 10 levels.

People should be able to get to these levels within reasonable time-frames if they exist. Not everyone can sit and play PoE for 6, 7, 8+ hours a day. If I have 2 hours to play, I don't want to play for 1.9 hours, and then get distracted by my girlfriend coming into the room to remind me we have to go do something, and then I die to a random enemy that kills me while I'm looking away from the computer, losing 2 hours of my time.

This never has been a good mechanic, and it never will be. There's at least another dozen ways to solve the issue of gating players and forcing them to consider their builds/gear. And they're much more effective. And largely, if you start dying in PoE, you'll just keep dying. You might be able to bruteforce your way through a boss, but the next maps get harder and harder.


Games that force grinding in them, play heavily off peoples ego's, and addictive tendencies. And GGG has even thrown in some gambling with the orbs. And if you take a look at it even further. The fact that you're forced to stay online to trade further reinforces all of these things.

This game is unhealthy. And people are trying to tell you it's unhealthy, and your ego is getting in the way of this realization. It's unhealthy because of the time required, it's unhealthy because of the frustrations built into the gameplay, and it's unhealthy because of the mindset it breeds in people. Superiority complexes, and looking down on 'casuals', as if they don't make up like 90% of gamers worldwide. And it's unhealthy because of the way GGG has implemented the ways to keep you engaged in the game. Ways that aren't fun, and are instead rather frustrating. Which is ultimately what games are about, Fun.

Addicts get into a cycle that's very similar to abusive relationships with video games like this. Where it's frustration and more frustration. But you'll keep playing because maybe, just maybe, you'll get that unique you've been wanting and it'll all be worth it. Except, the games never going to change. It's just going to keep love bombing you. And you'll keep defending it.

You are acting entitled, asking to get what others more involved people get with their time without spending as much time yourself, or to remove their endgoals' difficulty so you can reach their too. It's not fair for them.

You are acting like a victim, because if other players are playing the game better than you, you think they look down on you for doing so. That's your own issue, as a player reaching a hard goal has the right to be proud of his own accomplishment. If you have a problem with it, it is -your- problem : you feel jealous, envious, and intimidated, even though nobody said anything to you or even bragged about it. That's even weirder because PoE is mostly a solo game.

Now you don't understand why PoE2 is a grinding game. Bruh, the company that makes the game is called "Grinding Gear Games", on reference of the playstyle of grinding gear items. Are you that clueless ?

Now, you start to realize the ENDLESS ENDGAME is a unhealthy time sink. Please read again. It's a ENDLESS ENDGAME. See those words ? It means it's without end, and after the game. Get it ? No ? Fine, let's explain : every video game with a endgame offer the option for the players to keep playing the game after it is finished, roughly for ever. No, it's not healthy to play forever, for sure. But it's not the game, it's after the game, once the campaign is done, which is what everybody, casuals and tryhards, can enjoy together. How do you offer a endless experience to those willing to continue ? Generally with a lot of RNGs for variation, side goals that take a lot of time to reach, and the usual infinite trading experience.

What YOU want is the endgame experience and side goals to be made part of the base game, aka the campaign, because you want to reach those goals as a casual without spending the endless time required to reach it. If GGG did so, they wouldn't have a endgame for people to keep playing forever anymore, would they ?

The problem you have, as an entitled casual, is to think clearing the endgame is the mandatory experience to enjoy the game as a whole. It's not. The campaign is enough. There is nothing wrong with buying a game 30$, clearing the campaign in 50-100H, having a simple glance at the endgame, and putting the game down to do something else. Maybe make one other character to redo the campaign with more currency in the chest, maybe explore the possibilities of the Atlas for the fun of it, but that's it. IT'S OKAY. Respect yourself, your limit, and your time.

But if you want -everything- the ENDLESS ENDGAME has to offer, and complain that it is too much, to hard, and too long to obtain, you just don't understand what the ENDLESS ENDGAME is about, and who it is for. You aren't entitled to get it all just "because it exist".

Change your mindset.

I expected no less from you honestly.

The moment someone tells you you're acting poorly, you turn it around and blame someone else.

Everyone else is wrong, and you're always, right. Right?

Just think about that for a moment. You must be the smartest most intelligent person in the world. Amazing. Thanks for gracing us with your presence.

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

Replying to somebody else's feedback makes me upset? Are you like okay? He/she quoted one of my replies, I answer it. What am I suppose to do? Ignore it?

Who is forcing him to like the inventory system? Plain and simple, its one question, you quoted it. Do you put words on somebody else's post like you think your assumption is always right?

You said it yourself. It's a feedback forum.

Not a iMirageX debate thread, where when someone posts something, You'll be sure to see iMirageX commenting about how wrong they are about something.

If it's not upsetting you, it should be easy to realize this and leave the thread, right? Go make your own about how good xp loss on death is instead of trying to manhandle this one.

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MrPedez#4934 a écrit :

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

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MrPedez#4934 a écrit :

He is kind of right though. The balance between es and life builds is way off, i think u will find that its damn near impossible to get much more than 3k hp with most builds except warrior/titan. In poe 1 i could easily scale 5k and above with any class while have much more armour than is even possible in poe 2 + the armour equation is almost 2.5 times worse in poe 2. Meanwhile i see ES builds running around with 15-20 k hp having absolutely no problems at all and plenty of options to scale more es in the skill tree while life nodes are completely absent. So in the end its balance that is needed which was expected since its EA and not xp loss on death which is fine. I actually scaled one of my builds in poe 1 above 30k hp

Since armor is in a really bad place right now, I would slightly agree with your take but builds with 80+% block is just on a different level. Like what I said in one of our conversation, watch Steelmage's warcry/totem build that has I think almost 83 or 85% block. Going back to the topic, it doesn't matter if you have 10k hp pool, if you walk to those on death effects, even CI with 14k over ES via grim feast will get destroyed.

Yes and also no. I myself can survive several on death mechanics depending on map mods and type of course and how many overlapping ground effects they spawn. Yes block is really good in many situations but having block cap or even going 83-85% block chance is still just a 85% chance of not getting oneshot when u cant scale ur other defences properly (life/armour in particular). One thing i learned from my 15k+ hours of poe 1 over more than a decade of playing is 1 defence type is not the way u want to go if u want to survive and be really tanky, its layers of different mechanics/defences that does the job. These mechanics seem absent in poe 2 and atm i think u are better of using a cloak of flame + a bit of armour than stacking armour. Life is completely removed from the tree except for a 3% node while there ar tons of great es nodes

That is a must for any good builds but as you can see, we do not have access to multiple layers of defense, I mean I am only speaking on my behalf. Warriors, Monk and Ranger can have multiple defensive layers as of right now and I agree on your take that enough hp pool needs to supplement that. That's why I said in one of my replies that in POE 1 if we compare, my build is crap since I only have my ES and I don't even use grim feast.

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Akedomo#3573 a écrit :

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

Replying to somebody else's feedback makes me upset? Are you like okay? He/she quoted one of my replies, I answer it. What am I suppose to do? Ignore it?

Who is forcing him to like the inventory system? Plain and simple, its one question, you quoted it. Do you put words on somebody else's post like you think your assumption is always right?

You said it yourself. It's a feedback forum.

Not a iMirageX debate thread, where when someone posts something, You'll be sure to see iMirageX commenting about how wrong they are about something.

If it's not upsetting you, it should be easy to realize this and leave the thread, right? Go make your own about how good xp loss on death is instead of trying to manhandle this one.

Leave the thread? Did you see who made this thread in the 1st place? Secondly, did you see my name on all those post and making a counter argument? So you want me to leave the thread, the one that I started and just ignore all those that are replying? Do you know how disrespectful that is? I mean if that is a part of your core value then sure, continue what you're doing but don't expect the same from other people. I don't even know why someone needs to tell you all these since this is basic etiquette.

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

That is a must for any good builds but as you can see, we do not have access to multiple layers of defense, I mean I am only speaking on my behalf. Warriors, Monk and Ranger can have multiple defensive layers as of right now and I agree on your take that enough hp pool needs to supplement that. That's why I said in one of my replies that in POE 1 if we compare, my build is crap since I only have my ES and I don't even use grim feast.

Yeah i think we are on the same page here, i would not play an es build without grim feast at the moment though, its just too good to ignore and i expect it will be nerfed in some way in the near future. But thats just my guess

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MrPedez#4934 a écrit :

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

That is a must for any good builds but as you can see, we do not have access to multiple layers of defense, I mean I am only speaking on my behalf. Warriors, Monk and Ranger can have multiple defensive layers as of right now and I agree on your take that enough hp pool needs to supplement that. That's why I said in one of my replies that in POE 1 if we compare, my build is crap since I only have my ES and I don't even use grim feast.

Yeah i think we are on the same page here, i would not play an es build without grim feast at the moment though, its just too good to ignore and i expect it will be nerfed in some way in the near future. But thats just my guess

Yup, grim feast gives a lot of leeway but I gave in and use blink =(

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

Mate, READ, "When did I use the term cancer to quote someone else's post?" do you comprehend what is the context of cancer in my post? Meaning the forum section per se not "comments". This is a very simple read and comprehend part of the thread, is that so hard to do?

Man you're so dishonest let me enlarge your quote :
"This forum section of POE 2 EA has been so obnoxiously cancer to say the least. People making non stop threads about - 10% exp loss on death, rarity and other stuff requesting for the game to be toned down. - 10% exp exist for a reason and it does not matter if you think its archaic system or not."

So no you didn't say cancer after clicking on the quote button, but you're literally refering to everybody making a complaint thread about 10% exp loss on death, which is far beyond quoting one single person. So, no, you didn't say "cancer" after clicking the quote button you said it after making a thread, very important point to focus on.

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

This is what happens when you "assume" and I take it, you do it frequently. I mean why are you even here? Your "assumption" is wrong, your read on the context is wrong, your argument and your replies are borderline "upset". What did you even contribute to the discussion? THIS is a thread I started and you are making something out of nothing. I will ask again, are you even okay?

You're the one making something out of nothing calling on people making threads. Is this your home ? Do we need your approval to make a thread ? If there's two persons giving the same feedback on first page, are you gonna make another thread saying it's cancer ?

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iMirageX#4580 a écrit :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2WENRDHo3g&t=0s

TLDR of the vid: Path of exile 2 is not meant replace path of exile 1, its meant to be a different game.

This forum section of POE 2 EA has been so obnoxiously cancer to say the least. People making non stop threads about - 10% exp loss on death, rarity and other stuff requesting for the game to be toned down. - 10% exp exist for a reason and it does not matter if you think its archaic system or not. Why are you forcing the game to change to suit you when you can go play some other game? Let's be perfectly honest here, POE 2 has way less, YES, WAY LESS one shot situation compared to the astronomically, plenty of situation you can be one shot in POE 1. If you are getting one shot by some random mobs, you, yes, you and your build may have a problem.

Usually, I am neutral when it comes to removal of - 10% exp loss on death topics but these threads in POE 2 is getting out of hand. If your reason is, I don't have x y and z time to learn, grind or -10 % exp loss is a slap to GGG's player base or -10% exp loss on death does not make any sense then go out, take a breather, come back if you think if its worth it.

To those saying this isn't hardcore, and if I want to get punished then I would play hardcore. Hardcore does not have -10% exp since death is the end and that is fundamentally, extremely different from softcore. Softcore -10% exp is the DEFAULT penalty for dying, there is no, nada, server that does not have -10% exp loss on death.


Different builds will have different weaknesses but asking the game to be easier just to suit you is just too selfish when even in EA, there are a lot of ways to circumvent this.

FYI, lvl95 and still having fun.

This is early access. If your intention is to shut down feedback I don't agree. Also I mean every feedback. I am 100% sure that ggg has all the means to aggregate the feedback in all the modern ways and they can handle even the least constructive posts without any issues.

The game will not die out because there is penalty on death, but might if people that care about it won't be able to voice their opinions, even if wrong or not smart. All the good will towards this rather poor product that poe 2 currently is relies on the premise that ggg is a decent, listening to the community developer. A lot of what is in poe 1 happened through community feedback and that drives this game more than the game itself (poe 1 and poe 2 are not very good games objectively, they do have pretty poor competition in their genre)

About death penalty:
1. Every game has some penalty for failing, that I think we can all agree on. The difference is just what the penalty is.
2. A lot of games punish the failure by just simply requiring you to redo the challenge. It is punishment of time. You "wasted" (I don't consider it wasting time as long as the challenge is fun) time and have to repeat. This is 1st layer of punishment
3. A lot of games punish failure by not giving you back what you have used to undergo the challenge (keys, consumables etc). This is 2nd layer of punishment.
4. Some games give you penalty to your character development, like losing "souls", losing experience, losing items, durability etc. Most of those give you a chance to redo the challenge to get back what you lost by succeeding in the challenge that you have failed. That is 3rd layer of punishment
5. Poe 2 also takes away the challenge itself as a punishment. This is 4th layer of punishment.

I don't know many games that have all 4 layers of punishment (besides of course hardcore titles, but those are for adrenaline junkies and are their own genre by themselves) and by all means it's just an observation, I am not judging. If I won't have fun in Poe 2 I will just go to other titles. I want just the developers to know why, so they can decide whether their "vision" is worth the player loss.

Why I personally don't like those 4 layers of punishment?

1. I like to play games that challenge me and give me tons of options to choose how to tackle them even thou I am not super skilled (I am pretty old;)).
2. I really like to experience things myself - the 40 challenges done are not bought beside some stupid few, I killed ubers myself (100s of divs on keys and maps burned) and run over 100 of 250q+ t17 myself. I have a build that's worth over a mirror and it's my build, not someone's else (I do use in it some opie meta templates). I try to craft the gear myself and for the most of the league I was almost ssf, only 4 of the items I wear now are bought.
3. I like learning through trial and error. Go head on, experience, fail, adapt, go again, experience, fail, get better.. repeat until I succeed.

This is why I hate those penalties and if they will be in poe 2 to stay i will not play it anymore. Especially the 4th layer is exactly against everything I am for.

I don't want to check tens of external sources of information about a boss to learn its patterns and whether my build is good enough. I want to go there get my head bashed, change my build, play better and challenge it again until I succeed. Poe 1 is already on the verge of being too harsh in me experiencing the game. I have to farm a lot of currency to even experience the content. Than I will suffer 10% exp loss, that I will not recover, for doing what a gamer should do - experience, learn and have fun. Than I am met with 6 portals to lose the challenge on top. I understand it's for the well being of the economy, the same economy that is well for 4 days of every league and than it's broken for the next 3 months. I hate it in poe 1 and it made me not play the game regularly.

In poe 2 right now not only they take that boss away from me, but also I have no clue what boss I will experience. I have zero choice on the matter. This is not only unfun for me, it is unacceptable in the long run.

The reality is that the death penalties make the game worse. Gamers don't experience the game, they buy completions and/or sell keys/maps instead of running them. They don't test their builds, they choose whatever is broken, because it will make them succeed. They stay for hours in external entities to check whether something works or not. They level their characters through the most boring and stupid content in the game. It destroys build diversity, destroys experience, destroys fun from challenging yourself. All for the sake of economy that never ever worked well besides few first days and a stupid notion that people will do only dps builds. Well they are doing 5 top meta now.. and they obliterate screens before they see enemies.

None of the above is players fault, the developers made the game this way. It is their construction. People will always find a way around problems and on game designers lies the notion to change it. It is ggg's design and their failure.

With harsher penalties this will only get worse. No one will try anything because failure is not 15 minutes its hours of lost time on top of even more resources than in poe 1. How is that good?