[feedback] Uber Elder fight design has bad parts and promoting cancer playstyle

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KiwiGivl a écrit :

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MrsDeath_ a écrit :

lol sure i can :D that fight is a joke.
+ i dont follow meta i create them ^^
people think other players are as bad as them or worse.
in my case its true. but in your case you ve never even seen the uber elder. which is really ironic when you judge me.
i speak from my 100s of uber elder fights while you talk out of your a.. with no experience :D

I just had to throw my 2 cents in after reading this forum. Like 90% of your builds use a loreweave... This is not original or creative. Try again.

i use loreweave because its the best ele dmg mitigation tool.
practically there is no better defensive chest piece in this game.
after that comes reduced ele dmg taken. mostly comes from jugg + wise oak
after that phy reduction and chaos res
which in chaos res. case it becomes 80% with loreweave.

I created my build to delve deepest depths possible w/o an immunity cheese.
Which makes my jugg tankiest build ever built.
I can go tankier with it but i dont see a reason to go 1.5k+ depth.
heres my original thread: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2237244

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Marxone a écrit :

there are people who killed UElder with Flame Dash ffs.

How much DoT DPS his Flame Dash had?

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Marxone a écrit :

I don't agree with the premise that Uber Elder is a dps check.

You need a certain level of dps which will make certain mechanics of the fight negligible. That is true, but that is true for any type of encounter in PoE (i don't recall any fight where ALL mechanics are fixed regardless of the dmg you do to the target).

All act bosses, all T1-T15 bosses, all Shaper's guardians except Minotaur, all Elder's guardians, - don't have any DPS threshold. Minotaur and Shaper do have some sort of DPS threshold (which is the only minor issue with their fight design).

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Marxone a écrit :

I would not call Uber Elder an easy fight, but considering behind what the encounter is positioned, it is not exceptionally hard after dealing with Guardians or Shaper.

I'm not saying UE fight is hard, i'm saying it has design keystones (DPS and others) which i consider as bad. Take a look at following situation - there are simultaneously:
- few vortexes following you;
- spawned propagator;
- Elder's expanding nova;
- Elder's siphon;
- Shaper's balls/beam/slam.
This situation is not solvable by player's skill - either way character dies or vortex explodes or propagator spawns decay. The only thing which can solve this is high DPS - you obliterate propagator and push Elder/Shaper into next stages before they combine their skills and before a lot of vortexes will spawn.

On one hand, the most straightforward, non-skilled, stupid way to play the game - stack as much DPS as you can - is the easier way to kill almost any boss including UE. On the other hand, UE is the only boss who is punishing player for not stacking DPS. That's why i call it 'promoting cancer playstyle'.

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Marxone a écrit :

And yes, if you play build with Multistrike and keep dying to Shaper balls because you get locked in place and are unable to dodge manually, shame on you (and shame on me, did that :D

I didn't say anything about multistrike in UE fight.

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nadakuu a écrit :

Essentially you need to manage fourthings.

1) who is not invulnerable
2) are you being chased by a bunch of orbs - yes ok go to a corner and pop them.
3) count shaper ball spam , he always does it a set number of times and it goes to where you were when he started casting.
4) attack for 1 sec, move few steps. (to avoid shaper balls)

once you get in the rhythm of the fight it is pretty easy.

aside , bring a cold resistance flask and swap to the minor god to reduce cold damage.

Thank for your basic advices on how to fight UE, in the thread made to deliver constructive criticism about UE fight design. As my gratitude for your attention to subject of this thread, i also have some basic advice for you: don't link 'Elemental Damage with Attacks' and 'Brutality' supports together. While EDwA multiples elemental part of damage, Brutality completely disables any non-physical part of damage, so linking them together is waste of at least one gem socket in your skill link. Once you get familiar with damage types, you will be able to figure out such things easily by yourself.

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DivineChampion a écrit :

On one hand, the most straightforward, non-skilled, stupid way to play the game - stack as much DPS as you can - is the easier way to kill almost any boss including UE. On the other hand, UE is the only boss who is punishing player for not stacking DPS. That's why i call it 'promoting cancer playstyle'.

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DivineChampion a écrit :

And who says 'you need millions of dps'?

you have no idea what the f*ck you are talking about.
just give up.

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I_NO a écrit :

Literally the easiest boss in the fucking game LOL holy shit like some guy did it as UNEARTH if you can't beat this boss with the power creep we have now right now.

It is utterly shameful and I'm honest here as my elitist half on me like that fucking boss is a JOKE with the amount we've been given any build can do it basically unless you aren't very good end of story.

Uber elder is literally the only thing that should be hard so people like you shouldn't be able to do it so easily smh no it should be hard come forth my ''elitist'' jerk friends teach him some humility.

Geeeeeeeezzzz .... ignore this guy, he is NO 1 troll on the forums.

I think uber elder is a decent fight. It is harder on some builds but practice should let you beat it. Things are fairly predictible after a while but you may also need some luck. Dont expect deathless on first try. Some people need 10, 20, 30 tries. Watch some videos and practice eventually you will make it.

The issue I have with the fight is that you kinda have to use kaoms roots, as without most builds will struggle af. You also need a lot of damage as the longer the fight the more trouble you will have with degen rings.

Good luck

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saragart a écrit :

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I_NO a écrit :

Literally the easiest boss in the fucking game LOL holy shit like some guy did it as UNEARTH if you can't beat this boss with the power creep we have now right now.

It is utterly shameful and I'm honest here as my elitist half on me like that fucking boss is a JOKE with the amount we've been given any build can do it basically unless you aren't very good end of story.

Uber elder is literally the only thing that should be hard so people like you shouldn't be able to do it so easily smh no it should be hard come forth my ''elitist'' jerk friends teach him some humility.

Geeeeeeeezzzz .... ignore this guy, he is NO 1 troll on the forums.

I think uber elder is a decent fight. It is harder on some builds but practice should let you beat it. Things are fairly predictible after a while but you may also need some luck. Dont expect deathless on first try. Some people need 10, 20, 30 tries. Watch some videos and practice eventually you will make it.

The issue I have with the fight is that you kinda have to use kaoms roots, as without most builds will struggle af. You also need a lot of damage as the longer the fight the more trouble you will have with degen rings.

Good luck

A sensible and polite post. Fuck me

Would ask friendship but there's no space in my list :( (GGG UP THAT FUCKING LIST PLS :p)

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I_NO a écrit :

Yeah and what would that accomplish? The same people like myself are still going to do it flawlessly you on the other hand and everyone else will likely still struggle.

What would balancing the game accomplish??? Are you for real?

Anyway... You claim that I struggle with uber elder. I have never said such a thing. I have beaten him with most of my 90+ characters and have done so deathlessly a few times (I don't fight him much).

My issue with the fight isn't that I struggle. It is that builds with enough of certain stats (ie. DPS, regen, mobility, immunity) trivialize the fight. A 22 million DPS character with 4k life can kill uber elder with no problems because it can cheese the fight and in reality, it doesn't even participate in the fight, it subverts it.

And it is actually ok to have builds that trivialize parts of fights and are very strong in certain situations, the problem truly lies in the fact that THE EXACT SAME BUILDS TRIVIALIZE THE ENTIRE GAME AND EVERY SITUATION, not just a single fight or part of a fight.

1 shotting everything, including bosses, is hardly a game.

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鬼殺し a écrit :

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gibbousmoon a écrit :

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DivineChampion a écrit :

- which is literally bypassed with closed eyes by DPS meta cancer builds (who push Elder/Shaper into next stages in a few seconds effectively preventing them from use of their skills), but makes players who prefer to not mindlessly follow DPS meta feel themselves as shit

You just summarized everything that is bad about Path of Exile in 2019.

And these issues are not going away any time soon, if Synthesis preview vids are any indication.

Spoiler

Not surprised to see the usual troll of this forum and her customary assistant troll--who she even "summoned," lol--descend on this thread from the very first page. These days you have to simply expect that, and ignore it.

Don't pick the wrong champion for your righteous cause, friend.

NOW I'm out.

Um, what? Why would I care about the messenger? The message is what matters.

The problem isn't the boss's difficulty per se; the problem is DPS checks (which are not the same as overall damage output) are in the same category as rage timers. They are a boring way to design difficulty into a fight, they discourage engaging the fight's mechanics, and they encourage cheese over skill.

All of these things make a game inferior to what it would otherwise be.

Insane bosses train you to use powercreep.

You are trained to use overpowered builds.
You are trained to like them.

Elder/shaper boss fight is okay.
Most map bosses who has phases are bad design.

Agreed with OP (I've killed UE with my Hopeshredder RoA Scion this league).
They went too far with that decay and vortex shit.