Delve - % res helmets are the new Elemental Hit but probably even more broken

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Head_Less a écrit :

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2136441/page/1

Apparently posting complains about elem pen on feedback had no effect on GGG hard on toward elem pen/reduced elem res. They want for some reason players to have 100% pen on mobs, look at those new vaal auras. This is just another step toward the stupid elem pen boner from GGG 1k hour team.

These Vaal Auras are actually a bait, almost everyone is running with so much pen and - res, especially with that helmet, that these Auras actually make things worse, not to mention you want high level Purities.

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Kiss_Me_Quick a écrit :

I'd love to see another rare helmet that universally gives almost all classes a major damage boost. It's essentially a permanent Wise Oak damage effect for everyone that uses it and currently 1/4 of the players use Wise Oak.

The crafting arguments are bozo as well, everything that has been broken so far and claimed so before release hasn't been rare. I'm simply pointing out a trend here and would rather not have this mod in game at all because it's on a HELMET.

With all do respect OP you don’t even really understand how penetration works or the difference between “increased damage” and “increased damage taken” in relation to monsters and you're trying to determine the hierarchy of usefulness of a -15% nearby max res mod by posting screenshots of numbers on PoB...

So I guess my next logical question is did you actually think people used Tombfist’s because it gave 10% percent increased damage or what?

Let’s leave the numbers aside here. They are comparable to the guy salivating across the dinner table who can’t keep his eyes off his date's DDs. Things you aren’t considering here or are underestimating:

1. “Nearby” is not a static defined value in this game, it differs for pretty much every item that grants this to either allies or enemies. We don’t know how large the radius will be. Leads into…

2. Usefulness – All ranged builds probably have zero use for this helmet. So now definitely not really an all-around damage increase at all. ~40% of builds probably won’t even consider an item like this. Even if they do, were talking about –res to only 1 element, not all of them. So again, this isn’t as good as you think it is. Full conversion builds might go for this but at what cost? Leads into..

3. Opportunity cost – We also are talking about a helmet slot here guy, this is competing with Abyssus, Lightpoacher, Strajonkas, Indigon etc and it can foreseeably only roll one element at a time for this mod knowing GGG. Taking it further, no one will likely waste their blessing fonts on these rares when those other helmets exist, so these will probably not be the “BiS” helmet for your build no matter how you look at it. (Would you buy a helm like this or a good unique or rare with the lab enchant you want….)

4. Crafting – you acknowledge this but not really, GL crafting a usable one that will actually make you consider the tradeoff. And even if you do, as said above, you will probably wind up upgrading it anyway.. Also ties into..

5. Drop Rate / Rarity of this mod – Unknown.

Game breaking? I don’t really understand how you can call this broken at all. Practical? Again, don’t really think so for most builds. Cool mod? Sure. Fun to craft and has some potential? Absolutely. Comparable to the benefit of Shaper Stat Sticks? Pass the weed bro.

We need chase items.

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joebagz a écrit :

Game breaking? I don’t really understand how you can call this broken at all. Practical? Again, don’t really think so for most builds. Cool mod? Sure. Fun to craft and has some potential? Absolutely. Comparable to the benefit of Shaper Stat Sticks? Pass the weed bro.

That's a nice copy pasta, just replace a few words and it applies for Elemental Hit / Stat sticks. Pass the pasta! Everything you said is a complete miss and already explained in thread. "You don't want to lose your STARKONJAS slot, do you!?" The last part of the text is like having one of these blondies approach you at parties and all that she'll tell the whole evening is "BUT NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME! YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYONE!". Great contribution!

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Jayburner a écrit :

We need chase items.

You need chase unique helmets, not chase alchemy orbs.

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Kiss_Me_Quick a écrit :

That's a nice copy pasta, just replace a few words and it applies for Elemental Hit / Stat sticks. Pass the pasta! Everything you said is a complete miss and already explained in thread. "You don't want to lose your STARKONJAS slot, do you!?" The last part of the text is like having one of these blondies approach you at parties and all that she'll tell the whole evening is "BUT NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME! YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYONE!". Great contribution!

Are you intentionally ignoring the monumental difference between stat-sticks and this?

Stat sticks are actually CRAFTABLE.

These are one-shot crafts. You cant chaos spam them, you cant alt spam+regal. Nothing.

You have to hit a usable helmet in a single currency use. Same as the garbage incursion mods that drop from temple basically.

Crafting a usable helmet that actually beats out the uniques in that spot? Its a RIDICULOUSLY low chance. THEN you have to go get the helm enchant you want. Good luck on that too. Only 1/450 chance or so.

Comparing this to stat-sticks is just apples and oranges. Stat sticks are OP because you can invest a good amount of currency to craft ridiculously powerful ones. None of that exists here.

Comparing this to tombfist while ignoring the 2 jewels you get is .. I don't even know what that accomplishes. The entire point of tombfist is to get 2 good jewels that provide life + 2-3 damage mods.

~Myth

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Mythkiller a écrit :

~Myth

Completely void of any understanding how gearing works in this game.

One shot craft what? Are you playing some weird SSF mode where you're not allowed to use scours?

Buy white enchanted helmet( 5-20x cheaper than any unique base) > Use the probably very common resistance orbs + maybe HP orb > fail > scour > repeat > GG helmet stats + almost free enchant.

These orbs will be common since there isn't anything else to be made common and they did mention that some of them will drop a lot. Resistances are one of the lowest tier of stats that people hunt for.

You don't have to invest anything in stat sticks, 40% gained costs 1C because they're common.

I don't even care about the Tombfist discussion, gloves have a place in all builds, helmets are just to get HP. Even 20 EX builds that I play / make have 3C helmets because all you want there is HP and some resistances which is gonna turn to -15 res + HP for ALL classes.

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Kiss_Me_Quick a écrit :

Completely void of any understanding how gearing works in this game.

Really? Conversation here about crafting and I have no understanding of gearing? Anyway, i'll proceed without attacking random things about you and talk about the point at hand.

I'll be clear. I absolutely think the mod is strong (everyone on this thread does). You are claiming it is busted and overpowered. Which I disagree with. Like other people have pointed out, not only is this diminishing returns, it isn't a particularly rare stat now. Pen is easy enough to get that the helmet cant just be 'good'. It has to be pretty damn good otherwise there are better utility options. Devotos/lightpoacher/starkonja etc. Leaving aside RF and spell damage indigon builds which will never really use this.

You have zero idea, just like us, what the drop rate is. The fact that you think it'll be easy as hell to assemble a triple resonator with life, res and lightning mods either implies you don't remember how GGG builds RNG into items or optimism. Not sure which. I personally think they'll gate the remotely strong mods heavily. We'll probably have a minimum delve level before they even have a chance to drop.

Even when you get a triple resonator, this may not be the best value for money craft to gamble on (since we haven't seen all the fossils, I cant be sure on this). Add on that the fossil doesnt even guarantee the mod and life fossils wont even guarantee high life, I think you are overestimating how easy it'll be to make a strong helmet here.

Maybe I am wrong and there will be 1c 100 life, 80% res, -15% light res helmets floating around but I doubt it.

If this mod isn't widespread and easily available (like usable stat sticks), then I think we can all live with it.

~Myth

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Mythkiller a écrit :

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Kiss_Me_Quick a écrit :

Completely void of any understanding how gearing works in this game.

Really? Conversation here about crafting and I have no understanding of gearing? Anyway, i'll proceed without attacking random things about you and talk about the point at hand.

I'll be clear. I absolutely think the mod is strong (everyone on this thread does). You are claiming it is busted and overpowered. Which I disagree with. Like other people have pointed out, not only is this diminishing returns, it isn't a particularly rare stat now. Pen is easy enough to get that the helmet cant just be 'good'. It has to be pretty damn good otherwise there are better utility options. Devotos/lightpoacher/starkonja etc. Leaving aside RF and spell damage indigon builds which will never really use this.

You have zero idea, just like us, what the drop rate is. The fact that you think it'll be easy as hell to assemble a triple resonator with life, res and lightning mods either implies you don't remember how GGG builds RNG into items or optimism. Not sure which. I personally think they'll gate the remotely strong mods heavily. We'll probably have a minimum delve level before they even have a chance to drop.

Even when you get a triple resonator, this may not be the best value for money craft to gamble on (since we haven't seen all the fossils, I cant be sure on this). Add on that the fossil doesnt even guarantee the mod and life fossils wont even guarantee high life, I think you are overestimating how easy it'll be to make a strong helmet here.

Maybe I am wrong and there will be 1c 100 life, 80% res, -15% light res helmets floating around but I doubt it.

If this mod isn't widespread and easily available (like usable stat sticks), then I think we can all live with it.

~Myth

Majority of the builds focus on one element or have one element outweigh others by a large margin, you need only 1. The PoB stats I posted were on builds that I had saved already and function without them, these weren't even the strongest examples.

Pen sure is easy to get but we're talking about essentially FREE and 15%, if it would be 5% it wouldn't be a problem. There is also a big difference where a mod is placed.

Body? Weak
Boots? Mostly need MS mod too, strong tho
Weapon? Super weak
Ring? Strong
Helmet? Broken

Yeah Lightpoacher CAN compete with the helmet but at the cost of having a 2 socketed helmet + an enchant on it. This makes the helmet cost 2 EX+ already for most enchants and on top of it you need to spend a lot of currency on jewels. And that's it, nothing else. Starkonjas is good for HP only and I never use it anymore. Rats / Devoto have no HP with very minimal damage increase.

I also linked that magic helmet on last page because I actually used it for my Ascetic build which needs a magic item and since helmet is the most disposable slot with only some res + HP needed, I chose that slot.

The point of this thread is to get some attention on it so GGG doesn't make the same mistake as they did with Elemental Hit and Stat Sticks, they were claimed broken way way before they were released and there was enough time to scrap or modify drop / mod chance rates. If Elemental Hit jewels would have been T1 rarity, it wouldn't have been a problem, but they weren't and now it has been a problem.

I don't doubt at all that it will be released broken. I was 90% sure that Elemental Hit would be fixed before it was released but it wasn't.