RIP Bisco's?

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krakerman a écrit :

The amount of sheer joy about the nerf indicates GGG did what vocal people wanted - nerf Bisco’s Collar into the ground. Again, maybe I am wrong here, but it certainly feels like in the process they also neutered (yes, Bisco was neutered in real life too) it to a point of being one of the last individual mf gear pieces most players will choose.

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krakerman a écrit :

Hi I_NO, and thanks :) I might do that, but won't until at least after Bestiary drops and the dust settles. Don't want to add more on GGG's plate at league launch.

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Towlg a écrit :

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krakerman a écrit :

The amount of sheer joy about the nerf indicates GGG did what vocal people wanted - nerf Bisco’s Collar into the ground. Again, maybe I am wrong here, but it certainly feels like in the process they also neutered (yes, Bisco was neutered in real life too) it to a point of being one of the last individual mf gear pieces most players will choose.

Rest In Piece.

Was one of the best unique designs I ever see.

Yes they just fell for reddit circlejerking about bisco's.

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LowBudget780 a écrit :

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torturo a écrit :

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LowBudget780 a écrit :

if I were a betting man I would go with retroactive nerf.

I bet on the opposite. It's a headache to retroactively change multiple items with percentage based values which vary, downscaling them in a fair manner.

This is gonna stay as is, there's no other way around.

I might happen to know something you don't. Lets just say, gonna be a lot of QQ right away 0_0

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krakerman a écrit :

Well, they sure did a great job of gutting Bisco's Collar and leaving it to die.

Some of my thoughts about this nerf, as the creator of the Bisco's uniques:

It is funny in a way that during the item creation process GGG actually suggested the original Bisco’s Collar stats to me, rather than me pushing for some OP item. I had wanted an item that rewarded killing normal (or at least non-boss) monsters, and that might synergize well with items like Windripper and Cameria's Maul that provide conditional IIQ/IIR bonuses that are easier to apply when killing normal/magic enemies. The balance team assured me the suggested stats (150iir/100iiq) were balanced, and they looked great to me (having a three digit roll has a nice pscyhological effect to me). The reason the individual stats could be so high was because they were a) conditional and b) balanced around the item having literally no other stats to speak of. The lack of non-IIQ/IIR stats was both an opportunity cost as well as a justification for letting the amulet be really, really good at the one thing it actually does such that it could potentially compete with some of the other super powerful amulets already available in game. Anyway, seeing stats I liked and that the item did what I wanted (reward killing normal monsters and not bosses), I agreed to it as the final version.

If I knew the item would end up like it is now - uninspiring and barely an alternative to the Ascetic - I’d never have agreed to the stats. Instead, I’d have pushed for entirely different mods. Maybe the current mods but scaled by rampage kills to more directly pair it with Bisco’s Leash. I would have wanted something more unique at any rate if the item was going to be reduced to 'meh' level stats. For context, during the design process I had suggested things like “dropped item's socket rolls are lucky”, "you gain IIQ/IIR bonus for X seconds after you kill a rare enemy", and "your currency drops are lucky", but all of these were rejected. Perhaps those would have all been too overpowered, but at the end of the day I wanted something that rewarded players, made them make a meaningful choice in gearing (do I go for more mf or more damage/defense), and that provided most/all of its bonuses to non-boss contexts.

At this point, I don’t feel happy or remotely proud when I look at the revised Bisco’s Collar stats. Given the huge percentage of players that used the amulet, some kind of nerf was probably in order. However, with Shaper amulets getting IIQ rolls, sextant blocking being nerfed, breach and abyss being super rare, and the Bisco’s Collar nerf being so drastic, I don’t see Bisco's Collar as being particularly desirable or viable at this point. Maybe I am wrong, we will see. But it feels like a heavy-handed nerf (maybe 65-75% IIQ would have been better?), and a nerf that was based on Bisco’s Collar’s synergy with conditions (sextant blocking, Zana breach) that can’t even be readily achieved anymore.

The amount of sheer joy about the nerf indicates GGG did what vocal people wanted - nerf Bisco’s Collar into the ground. Again, maybe I am wrong here, but it certainly feels like in the process they also neutered (yes, Bisco was neutered in real life too) it to a point of being one of the last individual mf gear pieces most players will choose. It likely has less of an impact than people using Goldwyrm or Sadima's, and it doesn't have the additional stats that Perandus Blazon, Bisco's Leash, and Ventor's Gamble provide. During the design process I had wanted something that could be effectively used by itself, like Bisco’s Leash can for the rampage and some bonus mf stats. That was the whole reason it has no non-mf stats, unlike most other mf items - to make it a compelling choice for mf that can be used alone or alongside other mf items it has to compete with the defensive/offensive power of things like Xoph's Blood. Now Bisco’s Collar seems to be trash in a vacuum, and only worth it if you are min-maxing IIQ AND you are meeting a few specific conditions for spawning normal monsters. All of which suggests there is no way in hell anyone chooses it over just about any other mf item if they are looking to add just a piece or two to their setup.

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neonive a écrit :

This sounds like a spectators fiasco like with Atziri's... Hold your Bisco's everyone