The wall of real problems that prevent PoE from being a god-tier game
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Gobla a écrit :
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RagnarokChu a écrit :
Another example would be skyrim, even if people use shitty gear they don't feel "bad" for playing the game. They have just as much fun as anyone else with gear progression, they don't care if other people have the legendary sword of +10 awesome or other people can become powerful even faster. The gear is an enchantment to the gameplay, not a focal point of why people play the game.
Skyrim can be beaten with the gear you find in the tutorial area, easily even if you don't level up. Bit harder but very possible if you do.
I look forward to seeing you kill Merc Dominus with a rusted sword and a few lvl 1 magic items.
And you can beat d2 naked. Again, very difficult but done before.
PoE has just an insanely high gear wall compared to those games. Which is curious considering how much they gate their gear behind insane layers of RNG. It's usually one or the other; not both.
Okay let me link you the D3 general chat which fixed this problem by constantly rewarding you, basically removed RNG in item dropping because they are related to your class and what skills you have on with lack of desync and unlimited end game content.
Ironically all of them are praising ladders coming out and changes to the game.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/3354739/
Oh wait the same same shit your complaining about.
Be more creative in fixing PoE into a god tier game please.
Why must people always be binary in their expectations>? There is a middle ground. PoE is a pretty rewarding game for the first 30 or so levels. As you increase levels, the mod pool grows, and finding gear that is appropriate for your level becomes rarer. If they simply cut drop rates in half, made base items level appropriate to the area your in, and made items roll mods within 30 levels of the ilvl, BAM, you have more rewarding loot. No, shavs don't rain from the sky. But you get a lot less garbage, and significantly up the chance of finding something usable in the content you're clearing.
There is no "middle ground" that doesn't have the >exact< same few complaints. I am showing you that the "wall of real problems" isn't the "real problems" with PoE. Otherwise you guys have to admit D3 is a "god tier game" and is vastly superior in PoE in everyway.
People complain about PoE, people complain to death about the complete opposite D3. What makes you think the middle ground would't be "just as bad" as either side?
Which is why I am saying be more creative in fixing PoE in a god tier game, all you people have is shallow ideas that don't match the actual results. Other then desync everything else is extremely subjective.
I wanted to reply to one of your later posts, but it all stems from this so i address that instead.
Basically, you have no point. All you say is that any point between the extremes is no better than any other. Please open your eyes, PoE is extremely starved from rewards. It is not about material rewards either, it is simply about the game not feeling satisfying once you get into endgame gearing.
If you just feel what is right you will know that drops need a boost. Yes, it is an opinion and as such you can tell me all day that its not better than any other opinion, but such talk leads nowhere and more often than not it leads only to confusion and misinformation.
I argue why it should be pushed in one direction, then you counter those arguments. Don't say in a more intricate way that it's just my opinion, that adds exactly zero. You play pass, play a blank, and then you consider it to be the winning argument when in fact you just confused yourself.
Back to topic,
It is not worth arguing over drops being good enough in path of exile, it is a fact that they are not. People in excess have quit over this, and not those who want instant gratification either. The magnitude of the problem is clearly evident in the amount of posts there constantly is about it, it shows how eye glaring an issue it is. Droprates are one of the greatest reasons people who otherwise want to love PoE have ended up quitting, GGG seemingly has no interest in changing their drop rates in any major way, and people who are willing to put the hours in end up putting those hours into other games that are more fulfilling to play. Myself included.
See, people don't mind putting in the hours, for example myself i play all my waking hours when a game is good, but with drops being the way they are in path of exile it is simply not fun to keep playing. I don't get something that excites me enough to keep me hooked, and i am not particularly demanding even though excusists want to portrait it as such to further their own argument that everything is fine.
If your brain is in balance, you will know that the drop rate is extremely low in path of exile. Everyone i know has to take breaks to gather courage to farm, then stop again and have to gather courage. That is because they really want what is possible to acquire, but once they start walking the road they realize that they will probably never get there. People want to love this game and you see everyday that they write they want to but they simply cannot keep going. Do the math.
The time is over where people should be afraid to say what they have known for a very long time, if they do not the game will forever be lost.
There is no complex situation here, this solution that you say is not creative is the simplest and only solution to a simple and straightforward problem. The complex nature arise inside your own mind when your reasoning goes:
I love PoE, so i love GGG, therefore i think good of what GGG does.
GGG do drops like this, and i think they do good.
There is problem, but GGG does good so other solution must be found. (dismiss logic)
Your subconsciousness understands the problem, but your relative position to problem is that love for one party makes you defend the decision of GGG instead of question it. There is nothing fancy to it, GGG are wrong about their drop rate balance, unless they want on purpose want to make that appeals to very few people.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
Dernière édition par Crackmonster#7709, le 5 avr. 2014 à 00:34:33
Math is irrelevant. I'm not even against a quality over quantity change. However, one would be a fool to not understand that if drop rates and quality were increased, once you got used to that gear, and the next level became even harder to get you're back at square 1.
Math is irrelevant. I'm not even against a quality over quantity change. However, one would be a fool to not understand that if drop rates and quality were increased, once you got used to that gear, and the next level became even harder to get you're back at square 1.
The further back you push the wall, the better. Sure, there will eventually be a wall, but you want that wall to come late so people can enjoy the majority of your game content.
Think of it this way. If there was a huge gear wall such that you couldn't even do The Coast unless you first farmed Twilight Strand a hundred+ times, how many people would play this game?
Getting to 100? Getting a 6l Shavs? Farming Uber Atziri? Sure, make those late, late endgame goals that require a lot of grinding. But people that have to wait 30-40 levels to find an upgrade? Not near as fun.
Here's what I got out of the opening post.
1. Let's change the way the game rewards players.
2. Let's change the systems used to socket and link your items.
3. Let's change the way chisels work.
4. Desync sucks.
5. Let's change which leagues are parent to which.
6. The game changes too much.
And no, I didn't read the thread. With a start like that, you can't make me.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Dernière édition par ScrotieMcB#2697, le 5 avr. 2014 à 04:53:56
I wanted to reply to one of your later posts, but it all stems from this so i address that instead.
Basically, you have no point. All you say is that any point between the extremes is no better than any other. Please open your eyes, PoE is extremely starved from rewards. It is not about material rewards either, it is simply about the game not feeling satisfying once you get into endgame gearing.
You missed the point, I said that you need to be more creative to fix PoE then a subjective thing that people would complain about anyway no matter how you tweak it between the extremes. Creative as in fix PoE without retarded obituary "drop rates" increase and more people enjoy playing through the game period.
"
If you just feel what is right you will know that drops need a boost. Yes, it is an opinion and as such you can tell me all day that its not better than any other opinion, but such talk leads nowhere and more often than not it leads only to confusion and misinformation.
I argue why it should be pushed in one direction, then you counter those arguments. Don't say in a more intricate way that it's just my opinion, that adds exactly zero. You play pass, play a blank, and then you consider it to be the winning argument when in fact you just confused yourself.
You do understand what you just wrote? My position is that focusing on something superficial that people will disagree with will never make PoE a god tier game, making the game fun for everyone makes it a god tier game. I am literally pointing out that just "making the game" more rewarding doesn't actually fix the complaints.
"
Back to topic,
It is not worth arguing over drops being good enough in path of exile, it is a fact that they are not. People in excess have quit over this, and not those who want instant gratification either. The magnitude of the problem is clearly evident in the amount of posts there constantly is about it, it shows how eye glaring an issue it is. Droprates are one of the greatest reasons people who otherwise want to love PoE have ended up quitting, GGG seemingly has no interest in changing their drop rates in any major way, and people who are willing to put the hours in end up putting those hours into other games that are more fulfilling to play. Myself included.
People in excess have quit D3 which is extremely rewarding, they also have quit D2 which is the ultimate ARPG because it got boring. The amount of people who quit because of xyz of superficial thing and "possibility" fixing it to make other people quit or the fact they won't give the game another try because buffing the drop rates 20% doesn't actually make them feel rewarded. You already assumed a position that you think "making the game" rewarding will fix the "problem" of the game, were I am saying there are plenty of much worse problems in the game and we are focusing the most literally superficial thing.
"
See, people don't mind putting in the hours, for example myself i play all my waking hours when a game is good, but with drops being the way they are in path of exile it is simply not fun to keep playing. I don't get something that excites me enough to keep me hooked, and i am not particularly demanding even though excusists want to portrait it as such to further their own argument that everything is fine.
Whatever
"
If your brain is in balance, you will know that the drop rate is extremely low in path of exile. Everyone i know has to take breaks to gather courage to farm, then stop again and have to gather courage. That is because they really want what is possible to acquire, but once they start walking the road they realize that they will probably never get there. People want to love this game and you see everyday that they write they want to but they simply cannot keep going. Do the math.
The time is over where people should be afraid to say what they have known for a very long time, if they do not the game will forever be lost.
There is no complex situation here, this solution that you say is not creative is the simplest and only solution to a simple and straightforward problem. The complex nature arise inside your own mind when your reasoning goes:
I love PoE, so i love GGG, therefore i think good of what GGG does.
GGG do drops like this, and i think they do good.
There is problem, but GGG does good so other solution must be found. (dismiss logic)
Your subconsciousness understands the problem, but your relative position to problem is that love for one party makes you defend the decision of GGG instead of question it. There is nothing fancy to it, GGG are wrong about their drop rate balance, unless they want on purpose want to make that appeals to very few people.
Okay first your going to insult me, then your going to assume that you are already right and doing x will make PoE god tier game with no other proof other then because you think it will when I provided ample reasoning and evidence that tuning up the game to be rewarding every single step that you walk doesn't curb the complaints.
Then you going to think you know me? I literally call PoE end game shitty, I call their system of "trading up" system shitty, I think shit like Vaal orbs/changes to leech and among a billion other changes shitty.
You need to pull your head out of your ass if your going to dismiss the fact that you think just "rewards" will fix this game and if I disagree with you then I must agree with GGG on everything or some shit. Like literally your being so ridiculously condescending that you actually believe "solving" this issue is so easy with other companions and developers who made many games, invested shit tons of money and attempted to many clones of D2 and other bullshit that it' simply solved by "making the game more rewarding". Like literally you think >nobody else thought of that<.
All the people that already quit could give less of a rat's ass if they double PoE drop rate, they already quit the game and most of their complaints if from how the inherent system of PoE works to the core already.
Dernière édition par RagnarokChu#4426, le 5 avr. 2014 à 05:22:13
Math is irrelevant. I'm not even against a quality over quantity change. However, one would be a fool to not understand that if drop rates and quality were increased, once you got used to that gear, and the next level became even harder to get you're back at square 1.
The further back you push the wall, the better. Sure, there will eventually be a wall, but you want that wall to come late so people can enjoy the majority of your game content.
Think of it this way. If there was a huge gear wall such that you couldn't even do The Coast unless you first farmed Twilight Strand a hundred+ times, how many people would play this game?
Getting to 100? Getting a 6l Shavs? Farming Uber Atziri? Sure, make those late, late endgame goals that require a lot of grinding. But people that have to wait 30-40 levels to find an upgrade? Not near as fun.
You could also see it this way.
If a player gets easy upgrades for the first 20h or so that would mean as soon as that player doesn't get any more upgrades later on he or she would be like "what the fuck, why does only shit drop now?"
I'm not sure what would be better, if you keep expectations low for better gear so it makes the upgrades you find more enjoyable, or if you make the player expect more but make the upgrades you find less exiting.
See when I play D3 now, I feel like after 30min of farming (at least below level 70) I will find at least one or two upgrades for my current gear. 30 min later I will find a legendary which will to 90% be an upgrade.
This makes finding these upgrades less exiting.
"Oh I found braces which give me 1.3% more dps and 4,1% more toughness, guess I equip that now".
On the other hand if I played PoE and grind for hours and suddenly some boots drop with tripple res life and MS I think this was a god sent. I post it and show every "look here what I found this is amazing!!!".
When these gloves dropped back in Nemesis I was fucking psyched! This was the shit back then I was really happy. (sadly I died shotly afterwards)
Strongly agree with both "time not rewarding" and "no crafting only gambling"
Sorry, but 2 exalts in a year (for example), with over 6 characters in the 80s...not very much fun. I can't even remember the last time I found an item that I got excited about. Guess what, in my situation, the only other course to rectify my bad RNG, is....more RNG from "crafting"! Yay!
Why must people always be binary in their expectations>? There is a middle ground. PoE is a pretty rewarding game for the first 30 or so levels. As you increase levels, the mod pool grows, and finding gear that is appropriate for your level becomes rarer. If they simply cut drop rates in half, made base items level appropriate to the area your in, and made items roll mods within 30 levels of the ilvl, BAM, you have more rewarding loot. No, shavs don't rain from the sky. But you get a lot less garbage, and significantly up the chance of finding something usable in the content you're clearing.
There is no "middle ground" that doesn't have the >exact< same few complaints. I am showing you that the "wall of real problems" isn't the "real problems" with PoE. Otherwise you guys have to admit D3 is a "god tier game" and is vastly superior in PoE in everyway.
People complain about PoE, people complain to death about the complete opposite D3. What makes you think the middle ground would't be "just as bad" as either side?
Which is why I am saying be more creative in fixing PoE in a god tier game, all you people have is shallow ideas that don't match the actual results. Other then desync everything else is extremely subjective.
I wanted to reply to one of your later posts, but it all stems from this so i address that instead.
Basically, you have no point. All you say is that any point between the extremes is no better than any other. Please open your eyes, PoE is extremely starved from rewards. It is not about material rewards either, it is simply about the game not feeling satisfying once you get into endgame gearing.
If you just feel what is right you will know that drops need a boost. Yes, it is an opinion and as such you can tell me all day that its not better than any other opinion, but such talk leads nowhere and more often than not it leads only to confusion and misinformation.
I argue why it should be pushed in one direction, then you counter those arguments. Don't say in a more intricate way that it's just my opinion, that adds exactly zero. You play pass, play a blank, and then you consider it to be the winning argument when in fact you just confused yourself.
Back to topic,
It is not worth arguing over drops being good enough in path of exile, it is a fact that they are not. People in excess have quit over this, and not those who want instant gratification either. The magnitude of the problem is clearly evident in the amount of posts there constantly is about it, it shows how eye glaring an issue it is. Droprates are one of the greatest reasons people who otherwise want to love PoE have ended up quitting, GGG seemingly has no interest in changing their drop rates in any major way, and people who are willing to put the hours in end up putting those hours into other games that are more fulfilling to play. Myself included.
See, people don't mind putting in the hours, for example myself i play all my waking hours when a game is good, but with drops being the way they are in path of exile it is simply not fun to keep playing. I don't get something that excites me enough to keep me hooked, and i am not particularly demanding even though excusists want to portrait it as such to further their own argument that everything is fine.
If your brain is in balance, you will know that the drop rate is extremely low in path of exile. Everyone i know has to take breaks to gather courage to farm, then stop again and have to gather courage. That is because they really want what is possible to acquire, but once they start walking the road they realize that they will probably never get there. People want to love this game and you see everyday that they write they want to but they simply cannot keep going. Do the math.
The time is over where people should be afraid to say what they have known for a very long time, if they do not the game will forever be lost.
There is no complex situation here, this solution that you say is not creative is the simplest and only solution to a simple and straightforward problem. The complex nature arise inside your own mind when your reasoning goes:
I love PoE, so i love GGG, therefore i think good of what GGG does.
GGG do drops like this, and i think they do good.
There is problem, but GGG does good so other solution must be found. (dismiss logic)
Your subconsciousness understands the problem, but your relative position to problem is that love for one party makes you defend the decision of GGG instead of question it. There is nothing fancy to it, GGG are wrong about their drop rate balance, unless they want on purpose want to make that appeals to very few people.
