The effect of RMT. Or not?

Threads on RMT are trending in the forum. And they got me wondering. (Please dont mistake this post as defending RMT. It is exploring the theory about what we can say we know and don't know about the RMT impact on the game.)

How well is the extent and impact of RMT by players in this game able to be gauged? The accepted assumption is that the economy is significantly distorted by RMT, and this negatively affects the gaming experience of the typical player. It's an easy premise to accept at face value- some people have more money = prices become higher = i can afford less. It seems intuitive.

But what evidence is there that RMT affects the economy in any way? The fact seems to be that we don't know what impact it has, or what the economy would look like at this stage if there were no RMT third party sites. There is no alternative universe which we can use for comparison.

Maybe RMT only effects the price of the very very high end, scarce and sought after items. Items which only 0.2% (example figure) of the player base will ever see due to their limited availability. Those items will always be traded amongst that 0.2% of the population, the price of them will always be adjusted to be valued at x times the wealth of the average player, therefore always out of reach. Eg, if everyone typically has 1Ex in wealth, they'll cost 15Ex. If everyone typically has 10Ex, they'll be traded for 150Ex.

Or perhaps due to RMT, Mr.Average player can now buy regular gear for less because Mr.RMT is not interested in trying to drive a hard bargain and argue over chump change. He just wants to shift those items out of his inventory for a chaos or two rather than resorting to vendoring them. Perhaps unless you are pursuing the most expensive items, the game is more affordable.

On with the RMT guessing game, lets pick a number. Lets say 5% of players RMT. Next is to guess at how it is that split between new players, mid duration players and long term, big time dedicated players, some of whom are significant donators. Then consider what impact it has and to whom, depending on how it is spread across those different departments.

All these things, these numbers, percentages and consequences, we can establish we don't know. We can only theorize and speculate on them. When i think of the impact of RMT on POE, i think back to the tale of when people thought the world was flat. They didn't know for a fact it was flat. It just seemed so obvious, so intuitive, so clear that it had to be flat, that anyone who thought otherwise was laughed out of town. My fundamental argument isn't that RMT does effect this or doesn't effect that. My argument is that we don't know.

Im sure those reading this will have their own theories on the numbers, and their effect. It's difficult for anyone to make an assertion that can be factually held to be correct or not. As for the impact of RMT on POE, the only thing i can say for sure is that without RMT sites, we wouldnt have forum threads dedicated to the RMT topic. Including this one.

RMT has virtually no effect on you if you play self-found or don't participate in the non-competitive aspects of the game (future PvP, ladders that aren't races). It simply doesn't matter to most people whether Johnny RMTs, because they never play with or against Johnny.

The drop rates would be the same even without RMT in the picture, and while they may benefit the RMT business (people are impatient, take shortcuts, etc.), the other way around doesn't apply. To me, it's a non-issue (other than RMT spam). Cheating is nothing new and pretty common in online games. Someone who RMTs doesn't take away from my gaming experience and doesn't impact it.

I see little difference between someone who RMTs and someone who can (and wants to) play 12-18 hours a day.

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I see little difference between someone who RMTs and someone who can (and wants to) play 12-18 hours a day.

What the crap did i just read.

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But what evidence is there that RMT affects the economy in any way? The fact seems to be that we don't know what impact it has, or what the economy would look like at this stage if there were no RMT third party sites. There is no alternative universe which we can use for comparison.

-99% perfect bis rares barely a month after the introduction of eternals
-those same rares being duped at a fee of 60 exalts
-dozens upon dozens of level 70 something players with 3 posts lifetime and no trade history mirroring those bis rares
-rmters buying original copies of high end gear for 150-300 exalt

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what does rmt look like a écrit :

Spoiler

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But what evidence is there that RMT affects the economy in any way? The fact seems to be that we don't know what impact it has, or what the economy would look like at this stage if there were no RMT third party sites. There is no alternative universe which we can use for comparison.

You win one (1) Internet.

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Nephalim a écrit :

What the crap did i just read.

Both parties (the RMTer and the 18-hours-per-day player) invest resources to gain an advantage in the game. One spends money, the other spends a large amount of time. The only difference is that one activity violates the game's rules and the other doesn't. Bluntly honest, though? I think the RMTer uses his time more smartly than the person who spends all of their time playing the game, if they don't enjoy it, just to get a perceived edge. Still against the rules, obviously, but I don't think it's a particularly relevant issue for most people.

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Mivo a écrit :

I think the RMTer uses his time more smartly than the person who spends all of their time playing the game, if they don't enjoy it, just to get a perceived edge.

Yes.

I took the liberty to bold the most important part of that sentence, because it is really something important for each and every player to consider.

Mods should start probating those that make RMT related threads....just like they ban those that get caught using RMT(that guy that was high in the ladder and several of his guild mates anyone?)

Thinking a bit more on this, I'm convinced that both RMTIing and playing 18 hours a day would be the fastest ways to kill the game for me. One is like a cheat code (fun for a bit, then no reason to play left), the other would burn me out in no time.

But anyway, my point was mostly that there are always people who can and do invest more (time or money) than the majority into the game, and these people will have an advantage over me. If I felt RMT affects my gaming experience, then the 18-hours-per-day players would do so, too. In practice, though, neither party does. That's where the comparison came from.

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Mivo a écrit :

Thinking a bit more on this, I'm convinced that both RMTIing and playing 18 hours a day would be the fastest ways to kill the game for me. One is like a cheat code (fun for a bit, then no reason to play left), the other would burn me out in no time.

Same here.

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Nephalim a écrit :

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But what evidence is there that RMT affects the economy in any way? The fact seems to be that we don't know what impact it has, or what the economy would look like at this stage if there were no RMT third party sites. There is no alternative universe which we can use for comparison.

-99% perfect bis rares barely a month after the introduction of eternals
-those same rares being duped at a fee of 60 exalts
-dozens upon dozens of level 70 something players with 3 posts lifetime and no trade history mirroring those bis rares
-rmters buying original copies of high end gear for 150-300 exalt

This means RMT only impacts the economy for people who are aiming for BiS gear by making this gear more expensive? And how do you know that the gear would be less expensive without RMT? And how much less expensive would it be? Looks like a really really small impact to me.