Anyone know a build that doesn't spam ONE skill 99% of the time?

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deteego a écrit :

You are over simplifying this way too much, obviously there are a lot of skills that can oneshot mobs, hell I am doing it currently with my new discharge character, in an ARPG however this point is irrelevant

What matters is the investment needed to make a skill oneshot. Case in point, again with my discharge example, I have to devote around 60-70% of my passive skill tree + 3-4 uniques for it to do that (maintaining/gaining charges, buff duration, etc etc).

The difference with EK/FP/LA is that you need absolute minimum investment to make those skills oneshot. The scaling on EK is so ridiculous that it can practically oneshit stuff with only around 4-5 nodes investment, same deal with LA (LA needs sparkling blows + catalyse + some other small stuff). FP just needs GMP/LMP + FP in your linked gem setup. This allows the exiles using such builds to devote 60-70% of their tree to pure defense, and run things like Khaoms with little to no disadvantage

I never said that all of the skills in PoA need a cooldown, but clearly some skills do for balance reasons (either that, or they need to be nerfed/adjusted in some other way)

Everything takes a large investment or it would be getting nerfed more. I've done EK, versions of FP and split arrow but played with a bunch of LA users.

EK didn't have good clear speed without crit. I also went through hell trying to support the mana cost. Also with both FP/EK the EHP is made up through gear, which isn't easy to acquire, without the gear you'll need to invest passives to make up for it.

With LA, when my group went out the first week of OB I went split arrow, my teammate went LA. We both were virtually useless until into the 70s. Our damage was low and we would die if anything touched us.

Don't think because a passive tree shows mostly DPS that it's not gear making up for it. These builds don't just come together without anything. The only 2 builds I saw that needed no support, you could run with white items and decent sockets were summoners and dual totem users, but moreso in CB because act 3 mobs are fast as fuck. Every other build I've seen or played has required a balance between gear and passives or it fails.

But on the point, I want to be clear, I have no problem with adding skills that require cool downs but I'm totally against adding cool downs to what we already have. It WILL ruin the game, or at the very least change it completely.

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Moosifer a écrit :

Everything takes a large investment or it would be getting nerfed more. I've done EK, versions of FP and split arrow but played with a bunch of LA users.

Thats clearly false

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Moosifer a écrit :

EK didn't have good clear speed without crit. I also went through hell trying to support the mana cost. Also with both FP/EK the EHP is made up through gear, which isn't easy to acquire, without the gear you'll need to invest passives to make up for it.

EK just needs one good weapon and a 5L, Kripp himself stated that the reason why EK is so strong, and why everyone is doing it, is because you can literally devote 70% of the tree to defensive nodes. He also said the same thing about LA and FP (unsrurprisingly)

Have you seen their builds?

Clear speed isn't an issue, you just pull more creeps in an area and AoE them all. This is PoE 101

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Moosifer a écrit :

With LA, when my group went out the first week of OB I went split arrow, my teammate went LA. We both were virtually useless until into the 70s. Our damage was low and we would die if anything touched us.

It was an issue with your build, I literally did not have any damage issues with LA at all

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Moosifer a écrit :

But on the point, I want to be clear, I have no problem with adding skills that require cool downs but I'm totally against adding cool downs to what we already have. It WILL ruin the game, or at the very least change it completely.

If anything is going to ruin the game, it would be this attitude

I dont know about you, but the casttime of many useful skills are too long for the gamepace.

For example, for my 2h LS Templar, i love Molten Shell. But even with faster casting (+iron will ofc), it feels an eternity to get it up (and it can be interrupted). Most of the time i prefer doing 2 hits in the 1sec cast time, than cast molten shell for the armor and minimal dps. It's more a "I'M GOING IN DUDES!" pre-casting spell.

I think most of the supportive skills are the same way.

In D3, i used HOTA/rend as left/right mouse button, and then stomp + leap + overpower. Or for other builds revenge, charge, ignore pain usw. All of them had like a 0.1s casttime, which was very fun. Monks just pressed all 4 keys all the time to heal them constantly :-)

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lethal_papercut a écrit :

Just to play devil's advocate I would have to say with the current state of the game that D3 "builds" (lol) used more varied skills than POE charas.

Before you shit a brick try to remember the D3 playstyle. You used almost every skill on your toolbar, sometimes wishing you had more slots.

I played a Witch Doctor, I would use darts, grasping hands, acid spew, raindance, my pets & a buff. I was always using different skills for different situations & mobs. It wasn't a 1 skill spamfest & all the skills offered a different mechanic to the others which made them better for certain things.

POE has a lot more behind the scenes depth but the current gameplay lacks many of the diverse mechanics we see in other games.

The one thing POE needs is mechanics. Mob mechanics & skill mechanics, that is what makes a truly great game.

I dunno about that in regards to do skills.
I had a Witch Doctor too, using darts, hands etc, just like 95% of other Witch Doctors.

Didn't really feel the need for more slots for skills, but more so the desire that more than 20% of my available skill choices would be actually useful.

Even though you already have 8 slots in POE, I'm still finding I have to make a lot of sacrifices when it comes to skills I want to use, but can't because of slot space.
Frost Wall, Freeze Mines, Discharge, Zombies, Spec, Molten Core are just some I would really like to have but can't. :-( Oh well.


I agree mechanics could do with some diversity. Like, maybe for example a mob that gets stronger the more cold damage it takes?
Or a mob that takes minimal damage from attacks from close range, or vice-versa?

Spells like Cold Snap which has a Cooldown (which you can bypass with a Power Charge) are good for mixing it up though.

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lethal_papercut a écrit :

Just to play devil's advocate I would have to say with the current state of the game that D3 "builds" (lol) used more varied skills than POE charas.

Before you shit a brick try to remember the D3 playstyle. You used almost every skill on your toolbar, sometimes wishing you had more slots.

I played a Witch Doctor, I would use darts, grasping hands, acid spew, raindance, my pets & a buff. I was always using different skills for different situations & mobs. It wasn't a 1 skill spamfest & all the skills offered a different mechanic to the others which made them better for certain things.

POE has a lot more behind the scenes depth but the current gameplay lacks many of the diverse mechanics we see in other games.

The one thing POE needs is mechanics. Mob mechanics & skill mechanics, that is what makes a truly great game.

Well, of course you'd like more skill slots in a system like D3's where cooldowns are legion. More slots = more skills to rotate = less time during which you have to use the shitty default attacks.
Actually I often have to skip some skills that I'd like to use in PoE as well because I lack skill slots. It's often Enduring Cry and/or Molten Shell that get ditched, but other skills as well sometimes. :\

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lethal_papercut a écrit :

Just to play devil's advocate I would have to say with the current state of the game that D3 "builds" (lol) used more varied skills than POE charas.

Before you shit a brick try to remember the D3 playstyle. You used almost every skill on your toolbar, sometimes wishing you had more slots.

I played a Witch Doctor, I would use darts, grasping hands, acid spew, raindance, my pets & a buff. I was always using different skills for different situations & mobs. It wasn't a 1 skill spamfest & all the skills offered a different mechanic to the others which made them better for certain things.

POE has a lot more behind the scenes depth but the current gameplay lacks many of the diverse mechanics we see in other games.

The one thing POE needs is mechanics. Mob mechanics & skill mechanics, that is what makes a truly great game.

well...minus spirit walking into a huge group of mobs, putting up bad voodoo, and spamming bears until nothing moved. (they broke that build though, and my ability to flatten elites in about 4 seconds)

I progressed with a much more button intensive build, but my farming one button spam high efficiency build being taken away pushed me out of D3. (and into path of exile, so for that I thank Blizzard)

OT:
In path of exile, I am currently playing a tri-ele EE witch. I use a spark totem, fireballs, and cold snap. Have two curses on the bar that i rotate on situation (ele weakness and enfeeble) , and raise zombies with minion instability. I also occasionally put artic armor on the bar in my one slot i use to rotate and apply my auras.

I constantly use at least 5 buttons between totem, cold snap, raising zombies, cursing, and my main damage from fireball. I have a rotation for doing damage in that my fireball will do horrible damage without a EE primer or at least a curse on the mobs. But when I have the totem going and EE procs flying around, my fireball one shots things, my cold snap freezes entire screens of mobs, and my zombies explode for mini boss-one shotting type damage (and need to be resummoned). So yes you can have some very priority or rotation specific, button intensive characters in this game.

my left click is move only, thank you ggg :)

Check out my Ek witch. Also has a spork and a spectre
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/361499
Powerful, fun and easy build to play.

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aimlessgun a écrit :

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Largefarva a écrit :

Title basically sums it up. Nearly all viable builds seem to have 1 spammable skill, maybe a curse and a few auras. Does anyone actually enjoy this? In such a complex game, it seems downright sad that the gameplay itself is so mind-numbingly simple. Hold down right click... maybe move around a bit... pick up loot. Repeat.
GGG, I love your game, but please find a way to encourage the use of some kind of rotation of multiple skills. Sorry, elemental equilibrium is not enough.

Hrm not sure which builds you're looking at.

A good build should have a good single target, a good AoE, for sure at least one curse but preferably a defensive and an offensive one, a utility movement skill, and a totem (and there are so many interesting totem options). And then auras/buff skills on top.

That's 6 active skills before buffs. It's not rocket science, but it's not as dumb as you try to make it sound.

Also flasks give you more things to press, and almost act as skills on their own. At the very least any decent setup will have two more 'active skills' in granite and quicksilver.

and not only that if urgear is decently dependant and you cant afford MF gear and damage gear all in one you can always have a weapon set up with Culling strike, so you can always make it more keys to press....its role playing so ur role is pre determined, if you want a more complex game go play a first person shooter where dives and rolls and constant motion is needed with calibrated aiming and highly sensitive commands and button combos.

Ok so, a lot of people who responded to this particular post are using interesting builds with lots of skills. And I admit, I exaggerated the simplicity of the combat mechanics. Flasks and curses are awesome and add a lot of complexity, and there are viable builds that use multiple damage skills (besides auras/curses).

So after some thought I figured out what is really bothering me. I realized that when I'm soloing, the game is a nice level of challenge, and it forces me to play tactically and use all my skills. It's great fun. Furthermore, when I'm soloing, I don't have to worry about looting. Without being forced to constantly look at all the loot that's dropping, I actually have time to focus on gameplay.

Unfortunately, soloing is just not rewarding enough. It takes way too long to level up by yourself, and you can't sustain your map supply.

So then I get impatient and join a group. And I realize now why people are spamming one skill most of the time. If you are running a map with decent iiq and at least 3-4 people, there is an absolutely ridiculous amount of loot dropping everywhere. You simply don't have the time or attention to use all your skills tactically and efficiently, AND make sure you don't miss any big drops. Not to mention, you can barely see the friggin mobs under all the text. Just spamming one skill, cursing occasionally and keeping one eye on your health and the other on loot, is basically maxing out your attention span. It's exhausting, and imo, it's just not fun.

And I'm speaking for myself here. I'm sure there are people who just want the fastest possible progression and accumulation of loot and currency. For them, using one skill to grind the ledge for hours on end might be fun as long as they keep finding uniques and currency. Or running maps with 6 players and constantly staring at a screen completely covered in loot might be what makes them happy.

But for the rest of us, I would love to see at least one of two changes made. Both of these ideas have already been discussed at length, but I am proposing them in a new light. I believe they will indirectly solve the one-skill-spamming problem, by either making map soloing more viable, or by making group play less excruciating.

1. Make soloing maps more rewarding and/or sustainable. Soloing maps is definitely my favorite thing to do in this game. But as it is now, every time I solo a map, I can't help but feel like I'm wasting it. I realize it will be difficult to increase map drops for soloers without causing inflation. We want maps to remain valuable. I'm wracking my brain for a clever way around this. Maybe something like: If no map has dropped in the zone when you kill the boss, the boss guarantees a map drop, and then after that, no more maps will drop (to prevent people from going straight for the boss before farming the rest of the area).

2. For the love of... my eyeballs, please add a customizable loot filter. I know it's been discussed before. But honestly forcing us to look at all the trash items is adding nothing to the game. It just makes it miserable in big groups. They had the option to filter out white items back in closed beta, and removed it, because of course some white items are valuable. It shouldn't be difficult to add the option to exclude certain items from the filter. For example, you could set it to filter out all whites (and blues?) EXCEPT 5 and 6 socket pieces (players would still have to look at them to see if they are 5L or 6L).