I got 1 hit killed

Rhoa charges will probably get a nerf. 3k damage is a bit much for a normal attack on someone with 90% armor reduction.

OP: your at a disadvantage here.


There are to many FANBOIS / HARDCORE that want this game to go down in flames. Their IDEA of fun is to make a game so challenging that only a few (sadistic souls) can handle it.

Anyone that comes in with an issue with the strength of the mobs, they automatically jump on the side that YOUR AT FAULT and a WHINNY BABY to boot.

Their take is, LIVE AND LEARN or go CRY AND DIE.

Run from the mob, you can out run it...but then they want the mobs to be STICKY and either keep up or never stop chasing you.

I agree with your issue.

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Greybear1andonly a écrit :

OP: your at a disadvantage here.


There are to many FANBOIS / HARDCORE that want this game to go down in flames. Their IDEA of fun is to make a game so challenging that only a few (sadistic souls) can handle it.

Anyone that comes in with an issue with the strength of the mobs, they automatically jump on the side that YOUR AT FAULT and a WHINNY BABY to boot.

Their take is, LIVE AND LEARN or go CRY AND DIE.

Run from the mob, you can out run it...but then they want the mobs to be STICKY and either keep up or never stop chasing you.

I agree with your issue.

Yes, me and some others will not let PoE fail at setting the true difficulty from start to end. PoE will not be your casual aRPG, and you know this already, so why still trying to change that as if you could ? What's the point anyway ?

You, die, so what? On Normal there isn't even a penalty for that.
You want to play hardcore? Well then you are supposed to know the game first, because that mode will be a really different affair from the normale league.

I really wish there was a way to just filter responses from specific people out of these forums. People like BrecMadak seem to exist purely to jump into every thread, regardless of if it has legitimate feedback or not, and try to bully people into leaving the game.

You're doing the game a great service boys, pat yourselves on the back.

There is a big difference between challenge, and cheap.

Challenge requires you to be able to adapt to the scenario and change either how you are approaching the situation, or equip yourself appropriately to be able to handle it. The problem with the supposed challenge included in act 1 is no one is prepared equipment-wise to handle what is thrown at them.

Rhoa's are one of the cases where it walks the line though. In general, you can dodge their charge if you are paying attention to your surroundings, negating a majority of their damage, but if you're a new player who doesn't know these mechanics, you may not interpret as an attack, maybe just the way the mob is rushing over to you. This typically means the first time it happens you are likely to die, and that's a bit cheap.

Bosses like Chatters are extremely hard to deal with for some classes as well. By the time you get to Chatters, you typically aren't even high enough level to equip a cold resist ring, assuming you were even lucky to find one by then in the first place. Chatters walking up, freezing you and taking over half your health in one hit, then popping you with the next swing is not difficulty, it is punishment for players who haven't gotten lucky and found other magical gear that happens to have cold resist on it, or happened to come across a flask to remove chilled/frozen.

Also, before you start telling me about your Marauder who cakewalked through chatters, or your ranger who never had a problem, try and think for a second about those statements. Ranged classes will not care about chatters due to his slow movement speed. They will probably never get touched by him. Marauders have exclusive access (at this level) to the most powerful defensive line in the skill tree, granting gobs of health, armor, and resistances, all things that give you tools to battle a mob like Chatters. Not every class has access to this.

Most of this type of behavior needs to either be toned down in act 1 normal, or maybe have some pieces removed until a later act. Does it really destroy the game if Chatters maybe doesn't use Glacial Hammer until you hit Cruel difficulty? Or maybe if the Rhoa charge does less damage then it can now?

Act 1 normal should be the introduction to the game. New players will get turned off and never get a chance to even experience what the game really has to offer. I guess to some people this is a benefit "culling the casuals" as some might say. That's ridiculous, and ironic consider some are trying to call others on the board selfish.

Let people get through normal mode without cheap tactics, this way they can accumulate some gear which they can use to adapt to specific situations like this. By the time you finish normal mode, there is no reason that you shouldn't have 2 cold resist rings sitting in your bank. This makes Chatters a more reasonable encounter when you hit him in his current state in the second difficulty mode.

The sad part is, the list starts to grow as you hit later difficulties though. You've probably seen enough threads on cold snap by now. Being in act 2 merciless and coming across 5 brines in pools and streams is NOT challenge, even with 75% cold resist, and the skills that give me 55% chance to ignore chilled/frozen, there is no hope to deal with 5 mobs spamming cold snap at you at the rate they do.

There IS legitimate feedback to be found in these threads. There is a big difference between the supposed "whining" that goes on, and people trying to give feedback on things that don't feel quite right. Chances are, between people wanting the game to be braindead easy, and people wanting the game to be so hard that only 7 people are left to play it, there is probably a middle ground between the two that the devs are trying to achieve.

so-so input you have there Grundnir, but i must ask you why would Normal difficulty be even more easy than it is, while there is no drawback of dying ?

Regardless of anything but imagine all the players opening a thread about their deaths, is this what you say "valid" or "not whinning" etc ? Sometimes, you give the impression of talking without thinking firstly.

Its an introduction already for those who is trying to achieve to pass the next difficulty, also informs the player that there would be dangerous and challenging moments to be experienced, in order to make them play more carefully, that's it. Game is already introduced to new players so generously more than enough already, they do not loose currencie, xp or anything.

If you give all the possibilities to a player that could easily defeat his foes, then how "challenge" would be created for the sake of ?

The challenge is finding "them", whatever is "them". You should do whatever you do to cater the game, not visa versa.

* Also i am playing duel wielding duelist, which is probably not the most powerful/advantageous class around.

Yes there are threads with legitimate feedback on the forums, but those are not the majority of whats popping up. What are popping up are threads where its basically such and such mob killed me please nerf it. Those threads are just as useless as the threads and posts you talk about. This is why I asked the OP of this thread what is defense was like, what his health was at, and what exactly killed him. That information is useful, and from the sounds of it, it is more of an issue with Evasion than the Mob itself(although it does sound like he got a nasty set of mods on it, probably increased crit and extra damage).

I know that personally I have gotten frustrated with the nerf this nerf that posts as of late, but in alot of them there are plenty of counters to what ever mob is making life difficult. In all of these threads(except ones about Merveil) there is one easy solution to them, and that's to ignore the mob and "park it. There are not an over abundance of mobs like this and they do not prevent you from progressing, they just prevent you from killing that particular mob. If one does not like that particular solution then that's more on them.

Now I like the difficulty but that does not mean I want to "cull the casuals". If there was a mob that prevented people from progressing and there was no way around it and was stupidly hard to kill, then yes there would be a legitimate concern.

Also people on both sides of this argument need to relax a bit.

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BrecMadak a écrit :

so-so input you have there Grundnir, but i must ask you why would Normal difficulty be even more easy than it is, while there is no drawback of dying ?

There is a difference between gameplay mechanics and user experience. Much of what exists in normal difficulty is easy, this is true, but there is plenty yet still that is far outside of the norm. Charging Rhoas and Chatters are great examples of this. It's bad design to have far extremes like this.

I did state, for the record, that Rhoa are one of the better cases of this, because at least once you experience it for the first time you are now aware and can actively evade their charges, but that doesn't change the fact that getting one shot by one as your first exposure to it is off-putting as a player experience. Chatters is the extreme of this, where any non-marauder melee character will have significant difficulty with him the first time around.

I also don't know why the difficulty in normal mode really effects the overall difficulty of the game. I'm not opposed to Cruel/Ruthless/Merciless being extremely difficult, as they should be, but I don't know why people seem absolutely dead set on normal difficulty being brutal as well.

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BrecMadak a écrit :

Regardless of anything but imagine all the players opening a thread about their deaths, is this what you say "valid" or "not whinning" etc ? Sometimes, you give the impression of talking without thinking firstly.

New players expressing frustration over unexpected deaths IS valid feedback, whether you like it or not. Some of them may present it in a more "whiny" fashion then others, but that doesn't change its validity. If GGG wants to have a product that people can learn the potential of, then users need to make it through at least the first difficulty without feeling like the game is needlessly cheap. I'm not against difficulty, but some of the examples provided aren't difficulty, they are cheap mob tactics.

Furthermore, I find YOU to be more whiny then anyone else on these forums. Every post I see you write is complaining about whiners, even in posts that you don't feel are whining posts, you can't help but bring up the fact that so many others are full of whiners. Every post you make is inflammatory, filled with insults towards the posters, it has no place in any forum. You provide the least useful feedback of anyone I've encountered on these forums.

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BrecMadak a écrit :

Its an introduction already for those who is trying to achieve to pass the next difficulty, also informs the player that there would be dangerous and challenging moments to be experienced, in order to make them play more carefully, that's it. Game is already introduced to new players so generously more than enough already, they do not loose currencie, xp or anything.

If you give all the possibilities to a player that could easily defeat his foes, then how "challenge" would be created for the sake of ?

The challenge is finding "them", whatever is "them". You should do whatever you do to cater the game, not visa versa.

* Also i am playing duel wielding duelist, which is probably not the most powerful/advantageous class around.

The first difficulty mode should exist as an introduction of the game and its mechanics, as well as a way to prepare for further difficulties to come. It should expose players to all the core concepts, skill gems, the way equipment works with sockets, the passive skill tree, and let the user get a feel for how to play their character.

There is no need at this point of the game to throw challenges which you have not had a chance to prepare for. Again, I think Chatters is the most glaring case of this. Every character I've played hits the prison first at level 9 or 10, cold resist rings require you to be level 11 to even equip. Chances are, you haven't even found one by that time anyways.

If you're LUCKY, you might have come across a flask that has the mod to remove chilled/frozen, but it's not guaranteed. The first hit chatters gets off on you does significant damage, and more then likely will freeze you in place, and sets him up to finish you off with you being unable to even respond to it.

This isn't challenge.

I gave a proposal to fix this, I notice that you ignored that completely. Maybe you think it's an unreasonable change? I'm more inclined to think you didn't read it at all, because the more I interact with you the more I'm convinced you are just a massive forum troll.

Thus why I'd love to see a feature to filter out certain users. Maybe I'll put it in the suggestion forum.

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Zeshin a écrit :

Yes there are threads with legitimate feedback on the forums, but those are not the majority of whats popping up. What are popping up are threads where its basically such and such mob killed me please nerf it. Those threads are just as useless as the threads and posts you talk about. This is why I asked the OP of this thread what is defense was like, what his health was at, and what exactly killed him. That information is useful, and from the sounds of it, it is more of an issue with Evasion than the Mob itself(although it does sound like he got a nasty set of mods on it, probably increased crit and extra damage).

Knowing what equipment the OP has isn't useful, not at this level. It's not like he has a cache saved up of different gear that he can go swap out to try and solve the problem.

This is why I keep stating that challenges like this have no place this early on, because the player has no method of reacting to them properly gear-wise. The learning experience shouldn't be a death scenario, you should be introduced to it in a fashion that lets you acknowledge whats going on, and then react to it without having to die first.

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Zeshin a écrit :

I know that personally I have gotten frustrated with the nerf this nerf that posts as of late, but in alot of them there are plenty of counters to what ever mob is making life difficult. In all of these threads(except ones about Merveil) there is one easy solution to them, and that's to ignore the mob and "park it. There are not an over abundance of mobs like this and they do not prevent you from progressing, they just prevent you from killing that particular mob. If one does not like that particular solution then that's more on them.

Frustration is fine, and providing a different viewpoint with your opinions is great. My original post was mostly directed at BrecMadak, mainly because he doesn't come into these threads to provide counter-feedback, but instead to insult the poster, tell them to quit the game and stop whining. This isn't useful.

For that matter, if its bothersome enough and posts keep getting made about the same problematic mob types that you have suggestions for, maybe you should make a compilation thread giving details and counters to the common ones. It might even get stickied. Then maybe people with these problems would read it instead of making a new post.

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Zeshin a écrit :

Now I like the difficulty but that does not mean I want to "cull the casuals". If there was a mob that prevented people from progressing and there was no way around it and was stupidly hard to kill, then yes there would be a legitimate concern.

Also people on both sides of this argument need to relax a bit.

The main point I'm trying to make is, there are 3 other difficulty modes. Why should these mobs exist in Normal? Cruel/Ruthless/Merciless is where they belong.

Making normal mode more user friendly gives people a chance to really experience the game, and decide if they like it. From then, they can head into later difficulties with knowledge about how the game functions, and have actual gear in their stash to help overcome obstacles as they encounter them. Putting obstacles in the way of level 5 players is only going to frustrate them into deciding the game isn't for them.

I have no desire to see people uninstall the game out of frustration. At the same time, I also have no desire for the game to be a cakewalk either. I'd like to see real difficulty and better mob AI, I just want to see it in the right places.