One shots!!! Could GGG balance the game!!!

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bionicg2040 a écrit :

Yo the game is balanced you just have to follow the guidelines:

1. Don't play melee
2. Don't play melee (kind of important)
3. Do not use evasion (well you can but it fails semi-randomly and does not work against spells for some reason.)
4. Do not use Armor. (well you can but it really doesn't work against projectiles, big hits, spells, consecutive smalls hits, traps, boss skills, etc. still better than evasion though)
5. Cap your resistances (very important)
6. Do not use claws (unless you like wolverine or like being inefficient at killing. daggers do it better so do swords, axes, wands, unarmed, staffs, etc.)
7. Keep some sort of headache medicine nearby whenever you go to trade (if not other recreational things work.)
8. Complain about the lab
9. Do not complain about the lab
10. Keep a rubber chicken by your computer for luck (bet you did not see that coming)
11. Make a daily sacrifice to R.N.GSUS
12. Layer your defense but be wary of guidelines 3 & 4
13. Do not get frustrated when things go awry (drops in fps, random one-shots, dying in hideout, etc. these are all isolated things)
14. The Atlas is not your friend
15. Imminuties are not legit but they seem legit so that is close enough
16. Do not play melee (seriously they will find you)
17. Do not play PvP
18 Rogue Exiles ain't shit (even in groups they ain't shit)
19. Prophecy Helps?
20 Loot Filters love them, cherish them, use them, and never look back

you managed to have #4 almost completely wrong

Armour does mitigate large hits (just comparatively not as effective as it is against small hits when you consider getting additional armour), armour does help a ton against small consecutive hits (in fact it's amazing against those), armour works against phys spells, and works against any physical boss skill in the game except bonespire.

Alright that's actually really funny lol

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biyte a écrit :

Can we get rid of elemental damage map mod already or change it to monsters gain non elemental damage as elemental damage? Because on pure elemental damage (including volatile) it is a savage roll that is up to 110% increased monster damage.. and you can get multiple on the same map and still get savage for another 15-30% more dmg...

Thats actually already how it works. A proper description of that mod would be..

"monsters gain 100% of physical damage as extra cold damage"

Those mods work like hatred and added fire, they only apply to physical damage, which means they only apply to attacks and physical spells. Elemental attacks from monsters, I believe, are essentially always coming from physical, if a skele fires a lightning arrow at you its 50% phys 50% lightning, but it starts as 100% phys and gets the conversion same way the player skill gem does, so the extra as ele comes off that 100% base phys like it would for a player.

for the most this means that a phys attack is usually getting between 0% and 50% mitigation, where elemental is usually 75%, so when they add 100% extra as ele from phys its not rly 100% extra damage, hardly any phys spells exist, its essentially only effecting physical attack mobs and you mitigate way more of it than the phys they were doing so its more like 25%-50% more damage overall.

What happens with Vol Blood is that Volatile damage is secondary elemental damage based on the main hand attack damage of the monster. So the extra physical as elemental scales the main hand of the monster, icnreased phys damage auras scale the main hand, % monster damage scales the main hand, a zombie or a bonestalker has a stronger main hand hit to start with than a crab. This is why it effects a completely elemental secondary damage source like Vol. It doesnt actually add to ele spells, if you run a Shrine with 100% extra as cold, 100% extra as fire, none of that will effect the lightning storm Piety casts, it will not freeze or ignite you if it crits, no lightning spell in that map will ever freeze or ignite you because they deal no physical damage and hence have no fire or cold from the mods.

Other things youll notice it effect are stuff like poison clouds from dead zombies. These are based off mainhand damage. Sometimes youll find poison clouds do nothing, cant even dent your regen, then suddenly in another map you almost instantly drop to 1/4 life from a cloud, its because its a sub phys aura zombie in an extra damage as cold, extra damage as lightning map and all those mods are multiplying his mainhand damage which scales the poison dot cloud.

One shots exist because of the 'instant log problem'.

Game is balanced around the ability to instantly log so anything other than one shots won't kill you. Zero threat from creeping danger.

GGG won't address the 'problem' insisting that there are only 2 ways to approach it. One shots being the choice they made and the other choice punishing people who DC.

This, however, is false.

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TheAnuhart a écrit :

They could balance the game around not logging out, just as if they had removed it, but without removing it. We have the same scenario but people are not punished because of a DC.

This of course moves the 'issue' to another place: 'But you can still log out.' Yeah, you can choose not to play HC, you can choose to not log out, you can choose to get carried, always have a guardian, never go into dangerous situations, the choice is yours. Are you a player that no longer uses instant escape because the game is no longer balanced around it, or are you a player that carries on using instant escape despite the game no longer being balanced around it and despite it now having a stigma attached?

Where's the issue? Ladders? How many people give a shit about ladders? How long are they relevant for in a league?

So let's look at the 3 options.

1) Status quo. Game is balanced around logging out, whether you like it or not, there are going to be (non-telegraphed, unavoidable) 1 shot mechanics as well as 'creeping danger'. If you don't use log out you have a far more punishing game. It is no secret that a lot of people don't like one shot mechanics, it's also no secret that a lot of people don't like that you can, and should, simply escape the game from creeping danger. Regardless of your view on whether we should or should not be able to instant log, this negatively affects everyone.

2) Remove instant log out and balance the game around this. This punishes people who have bad internet. We all will be victims of DCs, some more than others. This negatively affects everyone.

3) Balance the game around not instantly logging, but do not remove the ability to do so, thus not affecting any player who legitimately DCs. While it is possible to still log, there is a stigma attached to it, you just don't do that shit. Those who do are basically cheating against the few others that are competing, for the tiny part of the league that those few people even care. While this choice, for some reason is the 'holly fucking shit, can't do that111!111' of the three, it negatively affects the least people.

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TheAnuhart a écrit :

3) Balance the game around not instantly logging, but do not remove the ability to do so, thus not affecting any player who legitimately DCs. While it is possible to still log, there is a stigma attached to it, you just don't do that shit. Those who do are basically cheating against the few others that are competing, for the tiny part of the league that those few people even care. While this choice, for some reason is the 'holly fucking shit, can't do that111!111' of the three, it negatively affects the least people.

Fighting games solve that shit in a funny way, if you log off during combat x times during the last y hours you get to wear a chicken hat for a few days and you will be much more likely to get matched with those that also do it.

I think there's something there and might be a way to do it in PoE too. Say, if you log off during combat more than 2 times during an hour you get a daily cumulative 10% experience and item quantity penalty every time. Not a huge dealbreaker for casuals, even with crummy connection because you probably won't play online games at all if you're disconnecting every 10 minutes, but it would have quite an impact on the competitive scene.

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TheAnuhart a écrit :

One shots exist because of the 'instant log problem'.

Game is balanced around the ability to instantly log so anything other than one shots won't kill you. Zero threat from creeping danger.

GGG won't address the 'problem' insisting that there are only 2 ways to approach it. One shots being the choice they made and the other choice punishing people who DC.

This, however, is false.

"

TheAnuhart a écrit :

They ...

So let's look at the 3 options.

1) Status quo.
3) Balance the game around ..

I remember 3-4 years ago Chris said it's not possible to do anything with desync - so we got bunch of supports to compensate the problem(pathetic multistrike, and non target attacks). Now everything is fluent to make next step further- log off timer must be implemented.

I know many players/streamer who don't use any logoff tactics because it's just unfun. It's like to betray your own choice.

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raics a écrit :

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TheAnuhart a écrit :

3) Balance the game around not instantly logging, but do not remove the ability to do so, thus not affecting any player who legitimately DCs. While it is possible to still log, there is a stigma attached to it, you just don't do that shit. Those who do are basically cheating against the few others that are competing, for the tiny part of the league that those few people even care. While this choice, for some reason is the 'holly fucking shit, can't do that111!111' of the three, it negatively affects the least people.

Fighting games solve that shit in a funny way, if you log off during combat x times during the last y hours you get to wear a chicken hat for a few days and you will be much more likely to get matched with those that also do it.

I think there's something there and might be a way to do it in PoE too. Say, if you log off during combat more than 2 times during an hour you get a daily cumulative 10% experience and item quantity penalty every time. Not a huge dealbreaker for casuals, even with crummy connection because you probably won't play online games at all if you're disconnecting every 10 minutes, but it would have quite an impact on the competitive scene.

Great solution presented. That would fall in line with the death and additional EXP penalty, as "chicken scripting" is the most offensive way of getting out of a difficult situation, and actually trivialises the challenge presented by content.

A few mechanics (like the infamous Volatile Blood, or Bameth's DD) should be accordingly adjusted, and a tuning of the more dangerous mods (-max res + added elemental damage) should be attempted - at least they should feel more rewarding...

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bionicg2040 a écrit :

Yo the game is balanced you just have to follow the guidelines:
3. Do not use evasion (well you can but it fails semi-randomly and does not work against spells for some reason.)
4. Do not use Armor. (well you can but it really doesn't work against projectiles, big hits, spells, consecutive smalls hits, traps, boss skills, etc. still better than evasion though)
14. The Atlas is not your friend

3. Evasion is entropy based. Only randomness is the first hit.
4. Armor works against projectiles. Wtf. xD Armor is ESPECIALLY effective against consecutive small hits.
14. It isn't? Free meepz dreepz tho? o.o

Other is somewhat correct, sadly. :C

GGG made new jewel for Glacial Hammer, but forgot not to make its AoE laughably small. Oh well, better luck next time I guess. :P

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TheAnuhart a écrit :

2) Remove instant log out and balance the game around this. This punishes people who have bad internet. We all will be victims of DCs, some more than others. This negatively affects everyone.

When you log out, either through alt-f4 (you can catch this event and send a udp packet before terminating the application), or manual log out (macro) the game should send a logout packet to the server.

A proper DC will not send this logout/exit packet.

On the server side, if the logout packet is received, let the game carry on running for another second or two before exiting (maybe even longer in boss zones/maps). For real DC's, instantly log the char out when you stop getting packets back from the client (or whatever the existing DC detection logic is).

This way you punish logout shenanigans, but don't punish real DC's any more than you already are.

Pulling your network cable, runs the risk of a real DC then. The server could decide to log you out seconds later which could be to late.

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BitterBiped a écrit :

When you log out, either through alt-f4 (you can catch this event and send a udp packet before terminating the application), or manual log out (macro) the game should send a logout packet to the server.

A proper DC will not send this logout/exit packet.

On the server side, if the logout packet is received, let the game carry on running for another second or two before exiting (maybe even longer in boss zones/maps). For real DC's, instantly log the char out when you stop getting packets back from the client (or whatever the existing DC detection logic is).

This way you punish logout shenanigans, but don't punish real DC's any more than you already are.

Pulling your network cable, runs the risk of a real DC then. The server could decide to log you out seconds later which could be to late.

You can create pieces of software to simulate "proper" DCs .... anything is possible.

And when exactly do you "stop" receiving packets ?
You don't know that, all the server can do is to wait for the following packet, until it decides that it has actually logged out, which is what happens now.
-> There is no "instantly" there, and there is definitely no way that GGG can have total control on anything that is happening from the client side.