Anyone helping Alira? (normal)

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Jennik a écrit :

I take Alira on every MOM build I make. As long as you're taking a lot of increased % max mana, her mana ends up being much more efficient than Oak's life. If you're leaving up enough mana with MOM that you can actually cover 30-40% of big hits, Alira's completely worth it. She's not worth taking if you're using any auras besides Clarity or if you skimp on the increased mana, though.

The tankiest builds I've ever made took the 60 mana from Alira.

how much mana you end up having in some of these builds ? in my experience without pledge, anything in 2k-3k rage was better off with life. maybe with 3.5k+ itd be better.

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grepman a écrit :

how much mana you end up having in some of these builds ? in my experience without pledge, anything in 2k-3k rage was better off with life. maybe with 3.5k+ itd be better.

level 90 Scion: 5694 life, 3149 mana after Clarity
level 90 Hierophant: 5133 life, 3395 mana after Clarity

The Scion has never come close to dying. The Hierophant died to a powerful crits devourer whose first hit did roughly 8500 damage (also had my ES up when it hit me). He was tanky enough to survive one of those ridiculous hits, though.

The amount of mana you have is irrelevant to which one is better, though. The important thing is how much increased % life and how much increased % mana you have. Both of these builds gain a fair bit more mana from Alira than they would life from Oak. Since mana is life for them, that means Alira's just better.

There are some differences when it comes to things like life flasks and running blood magic maps that make Oak better in certain ways, but in my experience they don't outweigh the extra survivability against big hits, mana regen, and so on.

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Jennik a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

how much mana you end up having in some of these builds ? in my experience without pledge, anything in 2k-3k rage was better off with life. maybe with 3.5k+ itd be better.

level 90 Scion: 5694 life, 3149 mana after Clarity
level 90 Hierophant: 5133 life, 3395 mana after Clarity

The Scion has never come close to dying. The Hierophant died to a powerful crits devourer whose first hit did roughly 8500 damage (also had my ES up when it hit me). He was tanky enough to survive one of those ridiculous hits, though.

The amount of mana you have is irrelevant to which one is better, though. The important thing is how much increased % life and how much increased % mana you have. Both of these builds gain a fair bit more mana from Alira than they would life from Oak. Since mana is life for them, that means Alira's just better.

There are some differences when it comes to things like life flasks and running blood magic maps that make Oak better in certain ways, but in my experience they don't outweigh the extra survivability against big hits, mana regen, and so on.

well the total amount reflects on how many increased % nodes you have in general ;) aside from flat values on gear and such.

you get 60 mana from alira and 40 life from oak. but your mana is getting hit for 30%, and life gets hit for 70% (assuming no hierophant mom for now).

I don't know, I'm not saying I don't trust you, but I kinda want to see the receipts (math). when I was doing a MoM toon in talisman no matter how I calculated it for under 3k mana (with lots of mana gear and most big mana notables around templar/witch/shadow) it ended up life being better.

not to mention things like bleed, stun and status ailments are all based off total life.

It's actually super simple to calculate which is best.

Take 60 mana and multiply it by the amount of increased % mana you have.
Take 40 life and multiply it by the amount of increased % life you have.

As long as the mana isn't so high that you have some left over after the 30-40% calculation, which still isn't terrible since you'll usually have life flasks and no mana flasks, you take whichever gives you the biggest number. That should almost always be Alira if you're playing MOM and trying to keep enough mana unreserved to cover 30-40% of hits.

Is there actually any use in getting Mana that high?
Because I sure wish that was an option, but I can't find any.
As soon as free mana exceeds 45% life, seems like wasted effort.

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Jennik a écrit :

It's actually super simple to calculate which is best.

Take 60 mana and multiply it by the amount of increased % mana you have.
Take 40 life and multiply it by the amount of increased % life you have.

As long as the mana isn't so high that you have some left over after the 30-40% calculation, which still isn't terrible since you'll usually have life flasks and no mana flasks, you take whichever gives you the biggest number. That should almost always be Alira if you're playing MOM and trying to keep enough mana unreserved to cover 30-40% of hits.

well I always had more life than mana %, and by a lot.

also, you didn't use a mana flask ? I carried at least one on my MoM toon.

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UnDeaD_CyBorG a écrit :

Is there actually any use in getting Mana that high?
Because I sure wish that was an option, but I can't find any.
As soon as free mana exceeds 45% life, seems like wasted effort.

More mana gives you better survivability. If you had infinite mana, then you'd flat out prevent all MOM damage completely. If you maintain an exact 30-40% ratio, sometimes you can run out since you're slamming life flasks and mana just keeps going down. At that point MOM's not doing a lot for you.

It's good to have as much mana as you can get. You get extra mana regen and an extra buffer in extended combat. It's normally not worth the effort to keep stacking mana after you hit the 30-40% sweet spot and are able to handle your mana costs, though. That's what I typically aim for.

That level 90 Templar I mentioned is almost exactly at 40%. The Scion's a fair bit over 30%, but still doesn't have enough mana regen to cover Flameblast even with all that mana, tons of increased mana regen, and Clarity. Mana costs on spells get ridiculous. I have no regrets about having that much mana on her, though. Increased mana nodes are much more efficient than life nodes. Once you can handle one shots, they'll often give you more survivability due to using instant life flasks and no mana flask.

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grepman a écrit :

also, you didn't use a mana flask ? I carried at least one on my MoM toon.

If you have a setup like those I listed, a mana flask is almost always useless. You get crazy good mana regen (219 on the Scion, 348 on the Hierophant) and should almost never run low on mana. I only use a mana flask in no regen maps. Outside of those, I think a utility flask will always be better in that slot.

I'm running a dps freezing pulse witch 6l and she just sucks down the mana.

alira helped my sustain full dps for mor than 4 seconds :D

even so I eat so much mana... something like 200-300 per second,
gotta use flasks to maintain max dps. the good news? perma frozen map bosses.

can permafreeze malformation boss. (used to be among my most hated bosses)

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Jennik a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

also, you didn't use a mana flask ? I carried at least one on my MoM toon.

If you have a setup like those I listed, a mana flask is almost always useless. You get crazy good mana regen (219 on the Scion, 348 on the Hierophant) and should almost never run low on mana. I only use a mana flask in no regen maps. Outside of those, I think a utility flask will always be better in that slot.

what happens in a map where you take spike damage that constantly depletes your mana ? or do you use a ton of those spirited response jewels (I used only one)

I ask because I had those instances and they sucked. for example death and taxes boss nova will hit you hard and deplete your mana pool fast.

lets say you have 2.5k unreserved mana. you have 300 mana regen and one jewel. still will take you a few secs to regen that back. meanwhile you most likely cant cast spells. for these situations (and no regen maps) I always carried a flask. it becomes kindaaa like a life flask lol