Feedback and Suggestions (Path of Exile 1) - Melee vs. Ranged: A solution - Forum

" IceMatrix a écrit : 8. The solution? It's time for TWO SKILL TREES. You choose either melee or ranged at the beginning when you choose your character, and it can only be changed with a full passive reset which we get often enough anyway for the perm leagues to make changes. Two Skill trees will let GGG add buffs for melee that ranged cannot take advantage of...like life bonuses and other damage reduction bonuses. I know the skill tree is fundamental to the core design of the game. The skill tree in many ways is the game. I think it can remain the single greatest feature of POE even if it is split into two trees. IF this cannot be accomplished then there really is no solution that will help melee characters. Even if you say something like...Buff only applies when holding a sword. There is lots of ranged classes that use daggers for their abilities for example. Or Ground Slam, Lightning strike use two handed weapons. I think this really is the best solution. What do you think? After Ascendancy, there's 19 skill trees. Although perhaps it's more useful to think of the 3 different options for each class as being just 1 extra tree each, where you get to pick your starting point (and they aren't connected). Anyway, there's at least 2 trees already.	Posté par PolarisOrbit#5098 le 11 avr. 2016 à 16:02:31 Citer ce post
@goetz I'm mostly speaking of ARPG design in general. I think it's possible to make the design choice of "any character can use any skill" and still have melee vs ranged balance, without resorting to things like D3's inherent damage mitigation for melee classes. If you want me to narrow my views to Path of Exile and it's future, here they are: it's too fucking late to fix it, and GGG never will. Perhaps they could in a hypothetical sequel, but not possibly in this title. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.	Posté par ScrotieMcB#2697 le 11 avr. 2016 à 16:06:20 Citer ce post
" ScrotieMcB a écrit : @goetz I'm mostly speaking of ARPG design in general. I think it's possible to make the design choice of "any character can use any skill" and still have melee vs ranged balance, without resorting to things like D3's inherent damage mitigation for melee classes. If you want me to narrow my views to Path of Exile and it's future, here they are: it's too fucking late to fix it, and GGG never will. Perhaps they could in a hypothetical sequel, but not possibly in this title. Well D3 also has forced abilities instead of flexibility, not just the damage mitigation. That being said D3 is a lot more arcade like ARPG game instead of a traditional ARPG game. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285 FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.	Posté par goetzjam#3084 le 11 avr. 2016 à 17:00:06 Citer ce post
" IceMatrix a écrit : You choose either melee or ranged at the beginning when you choose your character But... what does that help? What does that even mean? Can I pick melee and then use a bow? Can I pick melee and then use faster proj spectral throw that goes offscreen? Can I pick melee and then use cast on melee kill spark? --- There still does not exist any real definition in the game of what melee and ranged really are. Being "nearby" to enemies "recently" (hey keywords) might be a way to start defining melee, but that doesn't seem like enough. --- My favorite "simple" suggestion is to just take ranged damage options down by a fuckton (i.e. aforementioned "cut LA damage by 70%", for most/all ranged skills) and then reset enemy stats to whatever difficulty GGG wants to set. At the very least, melee should probably have a damage reward for their massive amount of increased risk. Heavy Strike (and other "true" melee skills) not being the highest damage in the game is utterly bogus.	Posté par pneuma#0134 le 11 avr. 2016 à 18:29:47 Membre Alpha Citer ce post
" ScrotieMcB a écrit : @goetz I'm mostly speaking of ARPG design in general. I think it's possible to make the design choice of "any character can use any skill" and still have melee vs ranged balance, without resorting to things like D3's inherent damage mitigation for melee classes. If you want me to narrow my views to Path of Exile and it's future, here they are: it's too fucking late to fix it, and GGG never will. Perhaps they could in a hypothetical sequel, but not possibly in this title. I'm beginning to think you are right. I don't think GGG wants to remake a second skill tree. So it won't get fixed as it requires a fundamental redesign. But maybe in a hypothetical sequel as you note. Until then RIP melee.	Posté par IceMatrix#0366 le 11 avr. 2016 à 19:14:47 Citer ce post
" pneuma a écrit : " IceMatrix a écrit : You choose either melee or ranged at the beginning when you choose your character But... what does that help? What does that even mean? Can I pick melee and then use a bow? No.But you raise another obstacle point. Once you choose melee you would be limited to swords daggers, axes, maces etc. And have true close quarters combat. Ranged would be restricted to wands, bows, spell casting...etc. Or the gems would have melee or ranged restrictions on them where they won't work for the opposite class type. Not sure this would solve the dilemma you raise but it's a suggestion.	Posté par IceMatrix#0366 le 11 avr. 2016 à 19:29:58 Citer ce post
Sry, but i wouldnt like a second skilltree, it´s already meaningless enough. I understand that a lot of People like to be a rpg archetype like ""warrior"", but let those that want freaky stuff also have there´s. I dont like fortify (that stupid star around my feets) and i think it isnt a good Mechanik. A lot of stuff playes into the melee vs range dilema, like worthles gab-closer, mobhealth vs player-dps, mob-abilitys. I quess the simplest solution would be a new core Mechanik, like: Revenge take 1-5% less damage and deal 1-5% more damage, lasts 3-5sec, stacks up to 5-10 times, if you took damage/blocked?/dodged? So basicly you would be rewarded by taken constantly damage, and a ranged Charakter wouldnt bother about it.	Posté par Pwnzors87#5366 le 11 avr. 2016 à 20:01:01 Citer ce post
" IceMatrix a écrit : " pneuma a écrit : " IceMatrix a écrit : You choose either melee or ranged at the beginning when you choose your character But... what does that help? What does that even mean? Can I pick melee and then use a bow? No.But you raise another obstacle point. Once you choose melee you would be limited to swords daggers, axes, maces etc. And have true close quarters combat. Ranged would be restricted to wands, bows, spell casting...etc. Or the gems would have melee or ranged restrictions on them where they won't work for the opposite class type. Not sure this would solve the dilemma you raise but it's a suggestion. What about things like spectral throw, using a melee attack. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285 FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.	Posté par goetzjam#3084 le 11 avr. 2016 à 21:06:15 Citer ce post
There is clear-speed (a loose translation of "damage"), and there is survivability; pretty much the only two metrics which matter. Close-range gameplay should not offer *less of both* when compared to long-range gameplay. GGG have been uncomfortably quiet on this issue. Requests for a Game Balance and/or Build Diversity manifesto post seem to fall on deaf ears. GGG ask for community questions on reddit then ignore? the submissions with the most upvotes. Also this gem from this GGG Q&A Feb 2015: " Chris a écrit : A lot of players believe that melee is still not in a particularly good place. What are your thoughts/plans on this? This has dominated our thoughts for a while now and it's taken care of in the expansion. That expansion was 2.0.0. Whilst I cannot quantify anything, I don't believe much progress has been made. (Especially when one considers that the previous major patch 1.3 nerfed the STR area of the tree rather extensively) IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle. You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta. Dernière édition par Ashen_Shugar_IV#4253, le 12 avr. 2016 à 03:43:56	Posté par Ashen_Shugar_IV#4253 le 12 avr. 2016 à 02:23:54 Citer ce post
Wow really?? "Taken care of" Bullshit. Sounds like GGG was like "here melee guys we threw you some bones, now just stfu."	Posté par Ceryneian#3541 le 12 avr. 2016 à 03:41:20 Citer ce post