Converted damage of conversions converts even more damage when it is converted from convers...
Hi there,
this is my third thread regarding gamemechanics. I usually started my threads with complaints about the unexplained complexity of this game. I pass this state now to get directly to the point. I read the article about damage conversion several times, still too many questions unanswered to write em up. Is someone able to do this conversion? It would answer my questions about Order and Conversion of Converted Damage inherently. The Task 100 Physical Damage Added damage 30% Phys as Lightning 35% Phys as Cold 30% Cold as Fire 15% Phys as Fire Converted damage 50% Phys to Lightning (Supgem) 50% Phys to Fire (Skillgem) 50% Cold to Fire (supgem) 50% Phys to Fire (AoF) 50% Lightning to Fire (AoF) 50% Cold to Fire (AoF) Results in ? I understand how the multiplicators affect those stats, so i dont need any explanation on that. I dont understand in which order damage is converted, when converted damage can be converted again and when added damage is applied. So if someone is able to do this, i tip my hat to him. |
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It results in a headache
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You got a total of 150% physical converted to elemental so first you re-adjust the conversion to a total of 100% conversion. In this case 100% from physical is converted to fire and 50% of physical to lightning, so actually 66.7% is converted to fire and 33.3% converted to lighting.
So you have 66.7 fire dmg and 33.3 lightning dmg. Total lighting dmg will be 33.3 + (100 * 0.3) = 63.3 of which 50% is converted to fire and the rest is lost due to AoF Total cold dmg will be 100 * 0.35 = 35 of which 100% is converted to fire Total fire damage will be 66.7 + (35 * 0.3) + (100 * 0.15) + (63.3 * 0.5) + 35 = 66.7 + 10.5 + 15 + 31.6 + 35 = 158.8 fire damage which is also the grand total of your damage. Feel free to correct me if i made a mistake somewhere. Inundated with cockroaches, I am
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions |
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There's an order to this, it goes physical-lightning-cold-fire-chaos, and for each element you should also do added damage before conversion.
So, it's added as lightning converted to lightning added as cold converted to cold added as fire converted to fire added as chaos converted to chaos Just follow this sequence and there's pretty much nothing to mess up. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs. ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► Dernière édition par raics#7540, le 3 août 2015 à 03:10:44
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" Skill gems takes priority over other sources. So, 50% physical will be converted to fire and 50% to lightning due to gems and then there will be nothing left for AoF. |
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Everything is accurate now
I corrected 3 things : - Miss read op question (wrote 30% phy -> fire instead of 30% cold -> fire - Forgot that gems and skills take priority over passives from gear and skill tree if the converstion total gets above 100%. - Used 33% added from cold -> fire instead of 30% Added damages from auras or heralds or anything else work like converted damage. You need to respect an order or priority. Order priority of conversion : Physical → Lightning → Cold → Fire → Chaos 100 Physical Damage Added damage from Physical (works like converted) Physical → Lightning → Cold → Fire → Chaos 30% Phys as Lightning -> Take base dmg, apply both physical + elemental increased damages -> here you have 0 -> 30 lightning 35% Phys as Cold -> Take base dmg, apply both physical + elemental increased damages -> here you have 0 -> 35 cold 15% Phys as Fire -> Take base dmg, apply both physical + elemental increased damages -> here you have 0 -> 15 fire 30% Cold as Fire -> see below, because of conversion priority Total of added damage + physical damage : 100 Physical 30 Lightning 35 Cold 15 Fire Total combined damages : 180 The you convert. You first have to separate each converstion into groups of the same origine First the physical to xxx (Physical → Lightning → Cold → Fire → Chaos) 50% Phys to Lightning (Supgem) 50% Phys to Fire (Skillgem) 50% Phys to Fire (AoF) you have 150% conversion, but since AoF is not a skill or a gem, it is not taken into account because there is already a total of 100% from the skill and the support gems linked to it (see wiki). Resulting in 50% Phys to Lightning (Supgem) -> + 50 lightning - 50 phy 50% Phys to Fire (Skillgem) + 50 fire - 50 phy Resulting in + 50 lightning + 50 fire and - 100 physical Resulting in : 80 Lightning 35 Cold 65 Fire Total combined damages : 180 Then the lightning (Physical → Lightning → Cold → Fire → Chaos) 50% Lightning to Fire (AoF) -> you have 30 lightning from base damage + 50 lightning from converstion -> 80 lighting -> converted at 0.5* factor -> 40 lightning + 40 fire Resulting in 40 lightning + 40 fire Resulting in : 40 Lightning 35 Cold 105 Fire Total combined damages : 180 Now for cold dmg. Here it is exactly 100%, so no scaling down, 100% of your cold is converted to fire 30% Cold added as Fire 50% Cold to Fire (supgem) 50% Cold to Fire (AoF) You had 35 cold, add 10.5 to fire and the base 35 becomes 35 fire, for a total of 45.5. Resulting in : 40 Lightning 150.5 Fire Total combined damages : 190.5 Sub total : 100 Physical -> 50 lightning (move this lightning to the lightning part) + 50 fire 35 Cold -> 10.5 + 35 fire : 45.5 fire 15 Fire -> 15 fire 30 Lightning + 50 lightning (from the physical part) = 40 lightning + 40 fire Total 0 physical 150.5 fire 40 lightning Total combined damages : 190.5 (180 + 10.5 from cold -> fire added) Deal no fire dmg : Rest : 150.5 fire Did it helped? - Dernière édition par Zybeline2#7822, le 3 août 2015 à 10:10:14
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" I think you have made a mistake and badly accounted added dmg - this chain: 35% Phys as Cold -> 30% Cold as Fire MY CHALLENGES ARE DONE ON HC, IT'S NOT SC GUYS!
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100 Physical Damage
Added damage 30% Phys as Lightning 35% Phys as Cold 15% Phys as Fire 30% Cold as Fire Converted damage 50% Phys to Lightning (Supgem) 50% Phys to Fire (Skillgem) 50% Phys to Fire (AoF) 50% Lightning to Fire (AoF) 50% Cold to Fire (supgem) 50% Cold to Fire (AoF) 100 Phys, Damage Added As: 30 Light (from Phys) 35 Cold (from Phys) 15 Fire (from Phys) Conversion: Skill/Support takes precedence, totals 100%, AoF is no use: 100 Phys -> 50 Lightning (from Phys), 50 Fire (from Phys) sum: 80 Lit (fP), 35 C (fP), 65 F (fP) 50% Light to Fire: 80 Lightning (from Phys) -> 40 Fire (from Lightning, from Phys), 40 Lightning (from Phys) sum: 40 L (fP), 35 C (fP), 65 F (fP), 40 F (fLfP) 30% Cold as Fire: 10.5 Fire (from Cold, from Phys) sum: 40 L (fP), 35 C (fP), 65 F (fP), 40 F (fLfP), 10.5 F (fCfP) 100% Cold to Fire: 35 Cold (from Phys) -> 35 Fire (from Cold, from Phys) sum: 40 L (fP), 65 F (fP), 40 F (fLfP), 45.5 Fire (fCfP) Add Damage modifiers (zero, in this case). AoF kills non-Fire. Sum: 65 + 40 + 45.5 = 150.5, rounds to 150 Fire Damage Losing 25% of your original Damage to incomplete Phys -> Light -> Fire kinda blows. :) Dernière édition par Vipermagi#0984, le 3 août 2015 à 06:45:09
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" Thank's a lot. Indeed I missread the op question. Also corrected the converstion from physical, AoF is overwritten by skills and gems, also corrected the added from cold, I used 33% instead of 30%. I corrected everything to be in line with op question. I get the same values as Vipermagi, so I guess its right now. - Dernière édition par Zybeline2#7822, le 3 août 2015 à 07:56:48
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Thank you guys, especially raics for helping me a third time. I read all your answers carefully. There are still things that are weird. Let me sum up some things, so i can be sure that I misses nothing now.
Correct me if im wrong: - about added damage
Spoiler
"added conversion" is applied before the "normal conversion", ignoring the usual order of conversion
- about Order:
Spoiler
The wiki text is inaccurate - "Physical → Lightning → Cold → Fire → Chaos" can mean two things:
a. 1. ...converted to physical 2. ...converted Lightning 3. ...converted cold 4. ...converted Fire 5. ...converted Chaos or b. 1. Physical converted to... 2. Lightning converted to... ... If Im not mistaken Zybeline and Raics have a different Opinion of this, or am i completely nuts? - Priority of Skillgems
Spoiler
From wiki
"... is again not helpful cause: a. There is no information on how other "gems" work, like Supports. Does this "no scale"-rule only apply to the one skillgem you are using or... b. ...work supportgems like skillgems, so that even skillgems/supportgems are scaled in the same pool? - Zybel's calculation
Spoiler
Depending on the answeres above there could be still mistakes
" " I dont know what order is right now, "phys converted to...." or "...converted to phys", but if i take your order as granted, then there is something to think about in your first step. 1. The values are doubled somehow. Dont know why. 100 Physical damage that is converted cannot exceed an amount of 100 elemental damage. 2. The "50% phys to fire" of the skillgem (infernal blow btw) should have priority and therefore not be scaled, as long as the wiki is not wrong. This results in 50% of 100 physical converted to Fire. Then rest is scaled... In the end we should get 50 Fire, 25 Fire, 25 Lightning, since [50/(50+50)]*50=25. If raics order is right, the whole thing is even different. - Viper's Calculation
Spoiler
" You Order is ... ...from physical, ... from lightning, from cold... ...right? You also consider (added as XXX) in this order, correct? So you are in line with Zybels argument. Now there a two questions: You treat support gems like skill gems, is this correct? Or should the skillgem have priority over supports? In addition you irgnore AOF, cause it is applied after gems and exceeds 100%. Is this all correct? Dernière édition par Philkingz#3638, le 3 août 2015 à 09:43:29
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