So who is the Best player in POE?

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CharanJaydemyr a écrit :

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Ivanovichy a écrit :

Why do veteran Diamond supporters always sound like the hipster whose favorite band suddenly became popular? You're not so special anymore, sorry. The game didn't get any worse with a larger community. It has improved considerably since CB. Stop asking for it back. As for the unjustified hate and downplaying of Kripp, do you feel slighted that he wields more influence than you over your precious game?

I have a ton of respect for you, but you're not making sense, Charan. First, you blame Kripp for his community, which he barely interacts with, so there can't possibly be any correlation between the two. Then, you say he breaches NDA for viewer counts; every time I watch, he asks Chris for permission first. And if you watch him, you know he tries to minimize controversy as much as he can. He actively tries to not give people a reason to hate him. Finally, you say he's not winning Descent races as templar. Could there possibly be a class balance problem? Duelist seems the way to go for a fastrack to the front page. He also just needs to adjust his strategy. It's a new ballgame after all, they were just released. And after trying to discredit Kripp through his racing laurels, or lack of, you say the unsung heroes are the real winners. The ones not coming in first every race. Kripp tries to help the community through his videos and stream, just as you say about the unsung heroes. He even acknowledges not everyone will find his videos helpful; he's trying to help everyone.

I usually lurk on these forums, but the hate for Kripp himself (which he basks in), not his fanboys who make a new thread everyday about him, is disgusting to me. It reflects poorly on the community as much as the trolling and otherwise rude behavior.

Firstly, I like Kripparrian. I don't see anywhere where I've said otherwise. I think he's an excellent player, very charming in his conduct, always ready to laugh where others would cry, and generally is the sort of streamer/player I wish we had more of. This is why I said 'through no fault of his own.' He didn't choose his fanbase and sometimes I'm pretty sure the word for it is 'endures'. But his is the job of popularity, so it's not really wise to question the nature of said popularity.

I'm sorry but I'm not really inclined to read or respond to most of what you said. I glance at it and I see unwarranted attacks and responses to things I didn't actually say. But since I am at heart a decent person who gives everyone a chance, here we go.

"

Ivanovichy a écrit :

Why do veteran Diamond supporters always sound like the hipster whose favorite band suddenly became popular? You're not so special anymore, sorry. The game didn't get any worse with a larger community. It has improved considerably since CB. Stop asking for it back. As for the unjustified hate and downplaying of Kripp, do you feel slighted that he wields more influence than you over your precious game?

Let's not confuse hipsters with people who were actually there. In my experience, the hipster claims to have been but then disowns something they never truly believed in. A hipster would not contribute a thousand dollars to anything because a hipster is a) a broke cunt and b) totally aware that anything that is going to be supported for that much is entirely too mainstream.

Am I special? I'm sorry, but yes I am. I was then, I am now. Amusingly enough, I was then not for my contribution financially but for my first real forum post, which Chris himself shouted out in Global Chat -- he didn't know it, but when he did that, he made himself and his company a fair bit of money. It was precisely BECAUSE of that unprompted, spontaneous acknowledgment of my rant re D3 vs PoE that made me a believer and convinced me that I really wanted to be special to this project. I know I'm not very good at this game, hell I revel in it. So I do what I can. What have you done? I'm curious. Are you a well-known streamer? Have you left in-depth feedback? Or are you just a lurker, like you said? Don't pin any attempts at 'slighted' on me when you're the one who feels the need to emerge from the woodwork and show displeasure at the fact that I am special. I'm truly sorry that you haven't found your own way to be special in this case. I'm almost as sorry that mine had to be bought, but hey, why not?

I am a Ruler of Wraeclast. If you think that's not special, good for you. GGG sure do, and the fact that 'Ruler of Wraeclast' doesn't in any way mean I still don't utterly suck at the game is why I am a very happy, very willing Ruler. See my signature.

Re: the community. Don't kid yourself. We became a free-to-play community overnight. My friends list from CB dwindled within a week of OB because things went to shit. They were already headed there and there was a palpable difference in attitude of the community at large, but especially in-game, after what I call the Kripparrian Weekend. Kripp made GGG over $10,000 that weekend in support pack sales. It was a huge thing. But I always helped out during the Open Weekends (part of why I accepted the moderator role, I suppose) and I immediately saw the difference in attitude in global chat. The earlier open weekends had been much more amiable and full of people asking pretty sound questions. Not entirely utopian but definitely not the shit-fest that was Global Chat on Kripparrian Weekend.

Curiosity took me and I checked out his stream, the chat for it. That showed me precisely what we had to look forward to.

On top of this is the fact that a free to play community is almost inevitably going to attract the bottom feeders. It's free, after all. The strange thing, the thing I still can't quite get my head around, is why a free to play game comes under more fire development wise than one that has millions of dollars pumped into it, that people have to pay to play. Why are the expectations on a small indie company so much higher than on triple A development companies? I really don't get that.

And that's the biggest difference between CB and OB in terms of the community. During CB, people accepted that the game was a long term project, that GGG had very limited resources and wouldn't be fixing anything overnight. OB, on the other hand, is just stuffed with ingrates and impatient tourists who really, truly do not seem to grasp the reality of the situation.

PoE should have stayed pay to play. Ten bucks entry fee per account. I've discussed this with several devs and while each has their own views, and don't necessarily agree with me, it's hard to refute that the community standards would be better if everyone here had to invest some small injection of their own money to play. To be here.

Give something away and people take it for granted. Charge for it and they do their best to enjoy it. To get their money's worth.

We saw it coming and we didn't want to believe it. If you genuinely think the community hasn't worsened since CB, I'm genuinely question if you were there.

And if lamenting these changes makes me a hipster, so be it. I still feel a hipster would have moved on by now, because that which was exclusive and 'underground' is now surely anything but. And I'm still here.

I'll be here until it ends. Come what may.

"

Ivanovichy a écrit :

I have a ton of respect for you, but you're not making sense, Charan. First, you blame Kripp for his community, which he barely interacts with, so there can't possibly be any correlation between the two. Then, you say he breaches NDA for viewer counts; every time I watch, he asks Chris for permission first. And if you watch him, you know he tries to minimize controversy as much as he can. He actively tries to not give people a reason to hate him. Finally, you say he's not winning Descent races as templar. Could there possibly be a class balance problem? Duelist seems the way to go for a fastrack to the front page. He also just needs to adjust his strategy. It's a new ballgame after all, they were just released. And after trying to discredit Kripp through his racing laurels, or lack of, you say the unsung heroes are the real winners. The ones not coming in first every race. Kripp tries to help the community through his videos and stream, just as you say about the unsung heroes. He even acknowledges not everyone will find his videos helpful; he's trying to help everyone.

Thanks for the respect but that's not what this is about. I've already addressed part of what you've queried here, particularly his negative but indirect impact on the community, but I'll focus on the NDA business.

He revealed alpha patch notes on his stream, which is a huge no-no. Anyone else caught doing that in alpha would have been kicked, but not him. Why? Because he's Kripparrian and the continuing relationship between GGG and himself is mutually beneficial. I don't really mind that (my interests obviously lie with GGG's prosperity and success), but I think he's aware of it and occasionally abuses this pseudo-immunity. He most definitely did not ask Chris if he could show alpha patch notes on his stream. It may have been an accident but I don't believe that Kripparrian, a highly experienced streamer who has dealt with NDA before, would make such a mistake. The mistake lay with GGG in allowing him to stream alpha in the first place -- it was to generate interest in Act 3 pre-release. Hardly necessary but Chris definitely has a soft spot for Kripp. Those two have a clear chemistry and I sincerely enjoy listening to Chripparrian. Very briefly, Chris was spending upwards of 3-4 hours on the stream, which in Chris-time is an eternity. He wouldn't have done that if he didn't enjoy it.

As for Descent, yes, there's definitely a class disparity. But if Kripp really wanted to win those races, wouldn't he simply choose the winning combination? No, because he loves the Templar. I deeply respect that. But as Scrotie said, Kripp isn't even much of a race winner overall; cwu is. I checked the season ladder and Kripp's coming sixth. That's awesome, don't get me wrong. But it's not 'the best'. And that's what this thread was meant to be about.

Trying to discredit? Uhm, no. Just saying it how it is. He's not winning every race, he's broken NDA, his fanbase are fucking batshit insane half the time and despite all that, I think he's a pretty top fellow and enjoy his videos. That's not discrediting, that's just giving a balanced view based on a lot of observation and experience. I bothered to look at the chat for his stream just to confirm that those who watch and idolise him are nothing like him. My opinion of Kripparrian is a lot more complicated than simply one that seeks to 'discredit'. On the other hand, it's not that complicated: I deeply respect the teachings of religious figures like Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha/Siddhartha, etc...but that doesn't mean I feel the same way about their followers. Don't read into that; I don't think Kripparrianism is a religion. Merely stating that I can simultaneously admire an enlightened individual and disdain his or her less-than-enlightened followers and advocates.

Kripp's no unsung hero. Don't even.

"

Ivanovichy a écrit :

I usually lurk on these forums, but the hate for Kripp himself (which he basks in), not his fanboys who make a new thread everyday about him, is disgusting to me. It reflects poorly on the community as much as the trolling and otherwise rude behavior.

Please feel free to scour my post history (both of them) for evidence of 'hate' towards Kripparrian. Until you do, kindly refrain from applying such an ugly label to me, thanks.

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Godgivenn a écrit :

LMFAO? Are you for real? This is a serious post? Hahahahahahaha WOW

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CharanJaydemyr a écrit :

For those who think I'm either 'not for real' or 'too proud', please note who called whom out. I responded directly to a particular post.

I'm completely content to just roll along, sucking at the game but supporting it in any way I can and not really talking about it. I am a reactive creature -- call me out, I'll respond with the full force of my abilities.

Don't, and I'm happy to make puns and keep my tongue firmly in cheek.

...I'm content with the answer of cwu as 'best player in PoE', based on stats and the testimony of two players I deeply respect for their analytic processes.

That's me outta the thread. :)

"

DexterousGecko a écrit :

"

CharanJaydemyr a écrit :

"

Ivanovichy a écrit :

Why do veteran Diamond supporters always sound like the hipster whose favorite band suddenly became popular? You're not so special anymore, sorry. The game didn't get any worse with a larger community. It has improved considerably since CB. Stop asking for it back. As for the unjustified hate and downplaying of Kripp, do you feel slighted that he wields more influence than you over your precious game?

I have a ton of respect for you, but you're not making sense, Charan. First, you blame Kripp for his community, which he barely interacts with, so there can't possibly be any correlation between the two. Then, you say he breaches NDA for viewer counts; every time I watch, he asks Chris for permission first. And if you watch him, you know he tries to minimize controversy as much as he can. He actively tries to not give people a reason to hate him. Finally, you say he's not winning Descent races as templar. Could there possibly be a class balance problem? Duelist seems the way to go for a fastrack to the front page. He also just needs to adjust his strategy. It's a new ballgame after all, they were just released. And after trying to discredit Kripp through his racing laurels, or lack of, you say the unsung heroes are the real winners. The ones not coming in first every race. Kripp tries to help the community through his videos and stream, just as you say about the unsung heroes. He even acknowledges not everyone will find his videos helpful; he's trying to help everyone.

I usually lurk on these forums, but the hate for Kripp himself (which he basks in), not his fanboys who make a new thread everyday about him, is disgusting to me. It reflects poorly on the community as much as the trolling and otherwise rude behavior.

Firstly, I like Kripparrian. I don't see anywhere where I've said otherwise. I think he's an excellent player, very charming in his conduct, always ready to laugh where others would cry, and generally is the sort of streamer/player I wish we had more of. This is why I said 'through no fault of his own.' He didn't choose his fanbase and sometimes I'm pretty sure the word for it is 'endures'. But his is the job of popularity, so it's not really wise to question the nature of said popularity.

I'm sorry but I'm not really inclined to read or respond to most of what you said. I glance at it and I see unwarranted attacks and responses to things I didn't actually say. But since I am at heart a decent person who gives everyone a chance, here we go.

"

Ivanovichy a écrit :

Why do veteran Diamond supporters always sound like the hipster whose favorite band suddenly became popular? You're not so special anymore, sorry. The game didn't get any worse with a larger community. It has improved considerably since CB. Stop asking for it back. As for the unjustified hate and downplaying of Kripp, do you feel slighted that he wields more influence than you over your precious game?

Let's not confuse hipsters with people who were actually there. In my experience, the hipster claims to have been but then disowns something they never truly believed in. A hipster would not contribute a thousand dollars to anything because a hipster is a) a broke cunt and b) totally aware that anything that is going to be supported for that much is entirely too mainstream.

Am I special? I'm sorry, but yes I am. I was then, I am now. Amusingly enough, I was then not for my contribution financially but for my first real forum post, which Chris himself shouted out in Global Chat -- he didn't know it, but when he did that, he made himself and his company a fair bit of money. It was precisely BECAUSE of that unprompted, spontaneous acknowledgment of my rant re D3 vs PoE that made me a believer and convinced me that I really wanted to be special to this project. I know I'm not very good at this game, hell I revel in it. So I do what I can. What have you done? I'm curious. Are you a well-known streamer? Have you left in-depth feedback? Or are you just a lurker, like you said? Don't pin any attempts at 'slighted' on me when you're the one who feels the need to emerge from the woodwork and show displeasure at the fact that I am special. I'm truly sorry that you haven't found your own way to be special in this case. I'm almost as sorry that mine had to be bought, but hey, why not?

I am a Ruler of Wraeclast. If you think that's not special, good for you. GGG sure do, and the fact that 'Ruler of Wraeclast' doesn't in any way mean I still don't utterly suck at the game is why I am a very happy, very willing Ruler. See my signature.

Re: the community. Don't kid yourself. We became a free-to-play community overnight. My friends list from CB dwindled within a week of OB because things went to shit. They were already headed there and there was a palpable difference in attitude of the community at large, but especially in-game, after what I call the Kripparrian Weekend. Kripp made GGG over $10,000 that weekend in support pack sales. It was a huge thing. But I always helped out during the Open Weekends (part of why I accepted the moderator role, I suppose) and I immediately saw the difference in attitude in global chat. The earlier open weekends had been much more amiable and full of people asking pretty sound questions. Not entirely utopian but definitely not the shit-fest that was Global Chat on Kripparrian Weekend.

Curiosity took me and I checked out his stream, the chat for it. That showed me precisely what we had to look forward to.

On top of this is the fact that a free to play community is almost inevitably going to attract the bottom feeders. It's free, after all. The strange thing, the thing I still can't quite get my head around, is why a free to play game comes under more fire development wise than one that has millions of dollars pumped into it, that people have to pay to play. Why are the expectations on a small indie company so much higher than on triple A development companies? I really don't get that.

And that's the biggest difference between CB and OB in terms of the community. During CB, people accepted that the game was a long term project, that GGG had very limited resources and wouldn't be fixing anything overnight. OB, on the other hand, is just stuffed with ingrates and impatient tourists who really, truly do not seem to grasp the reality of the situation.

PoE should have stayed pay to play. Ten bucks entry fee per account. I've discussed this with several devs and while each has their own views, and don't necessarily agree with me, it's hard to refute that the community standards would be better if everyone here had to invest some small injection of their own money to play. To be here.

Give something away and people take it for granted. Charge for it and they do their best to enjoy it. To get their money's worth.

We saw it coming and we didn't want to believe it. If you genuinely think the community hasn't worsened since CB, I'm genuinely question if you were there.

And if lamenting these changes makes me a hipster, so be it. I still feel a hipster would have moved on by now, because that which was exclusive and 'underground' is now surely anything but. And I'm still here.

I'll be here until it ends. Come what may.

"

Ivanovichy a écrit :

I have a ton of respect for you, but you're not making sense, Charan. First, you blame Kripp for his community, which he barely interacts with, so there can't possibly be any correlation between the two. Then, you say he breaches NDA for viewer counts; every time I watch, he asks Chris for permission first. And if you watch him, you know he tries to minimize controversy as much as he can. He actively tries to not give people a reason to hate him. Finally, you say he's not winning Descent races as templar. Could there possibly be a class balance problem? Duelist seems the way to go for a fastrack to the front page. He also just needs to adjust his strategy. It's a new ballgame after all, they were just released. And after trying to discredit Kripp through his racing laurels, or lack of, you say the unsung heroes are the real winners. The ones not coming in first every race. Kripp tries to help the community through his videos and stream, just as you say about the unsung heroes. He even acknowledges not everyone will find his videos helpful; he's trying to help everyone.

Thanks for the respect but that's not what this is about. I've already addressed part of what you've queried here, particularly his negative but indirect impact on the community, but I'll focus on the NDA business.

He revealed alpha patch notes on his stream, which is a huge no-no. Anyone else caught doing that in alpha would have been kicked, but not him. Why? Because he's Kripparrian and the continuing relationship between GGG and himself is mutually beneficial. I don't really mind that (my interests obviously lie with GGG's prosperity and success), but I think he's aware of it and occasionally abuses this pseudo-immunity. He most definitely did not ask Chris if he could show alpha patch notes on his stream. It may have been an accident but I don't believe that Kripparrian, a highly experienced streamer who has dealt with NDA before, would make such a mistake. The mistake lay with GGG in allowing him to stream alpha in the first place -- it was to generate interest in Act 3 pre-release. Hardly necessary but Chris definitely has a soft spot for Kripp. Those two have a clear chemistry and I sincerely enjoy listening to Chripparrian. Very briefly, Chris was spending upwards of 3-4 hours on the stream, which in Chris-time is an eternity. He wouldn't have done that if he didn't enjoy it.

As for Descent, yes, there's definitely a class disparity. But if Kripp really wanted to win those races, wouldn't he simply choose the winning combination? No, because he loves the Templar. I deeply respect that. But as Scrotie said, Kripp isn't even much of a race winner overall; cwu is. I checked the season ladder and Kripp's coming sixth. That's awesome, don't get me wrong. But it's not 'the best'. And that's what this thread was meant to be about.

Trying to discredit? Uhm, no. Just saying it how it is. He's not winning every race, he's broken NDA, his fanbase are fucking batshit insane half the time and despite all that, I think he's a pretty top fellow and enjoy his videos. That's not discrediting, that's just giving a balanced view based on a lot of observation and experience. I bothered to look at the chat for his stream just to confirm that those who watch and idolise him are nothing like him. My opinion of Kripparrian is a lot more complicated than simply one that seeks to 'discredit'. On the other hand, it's not that complicated: I deeply respect the teachings of religious figures like Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha/Siddhartha, etc...but that doesn't mean I feel the same way about their followers. Don't read into that; I don't think Kripparrianism is a religion. Merely stating that I can simultaneously admire an enlightened individual and disdain his or her less-than-enlightened followers and advocates.

Kripp's no unsung hero. Don't even.

"

Ivanovichy a écrit :

I usually lurk on these forums, but the hate for Kripp himself (which he basks in), not his fanboys who make a new thread everyday about him, is disgusting to me. It reflects poorly on the community as much as the trolling and otherwise rude behavior.

Please feel free to scour my post history (both of them) for evidence of 'hate' towards Kripparrian. Until you do, kindly refrain from applying such an ugly label to me, thanks.

I'll be honest, you sound entirely too proud to have spent an insane amount of money on a videogame. We get it, you're special. Kripp makes money playing the game, while you pay to play the game. I wonder, do you secretly desire admiration from the community and feel threatened by the attention other players get? I assume if it was true, you probably wouldn't answer anyways, but I'm still curious.