XP loss should only be for the XP gained in that map

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Peenk#2338 a écrit :

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Echothesis#7320 a écrit :

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Johny_Snow#4778 a écrit :

That being said, XP loss has been a hot topic for probably more than a decade and GGG haven't removed it, so no, you won't do a darn thing complaining about it - it stays. And me personally, I am happy it stays.

GGG will remove it, because videogame market is changing even if GGG doesn't. Suffering large progression setbacks because of single mistake (or without mistakes at all, just from RNG killing you) is a thing of the past.

They already had to remove exp loss on pinnacle bosses and the original version of map loss after first death. It may take another decade though, and a loss of 90% playerbase after old gitgud crowd retires:)

No, they won’t.

You’re complaining about the only penalty to death.

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Johny_Snow#4778 a écrit :

It's been said numerous times in other threads, not here, that the penalty is necessary, otherwise players would gravitate towards faster classes/classes which have more damage. Slower classes would fall off. Defenses would be ignored. More demands would be made, like for more portals. The game would actually become even less diverse than it is now.

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Mashgesture#2912 a écrit :

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Have been able to get to 93, but 0 progress since starting 0 revive maps

Make a build that can handle that then.

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Echothesis#7320 a écrit :

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Johny_Snow#4778 a écrit :

It's been said numerous times in other threads, not here, that the penalty is necessary, otherwise players would gravitate towards faster classes/classes which have more damage. Slower classes would fall off. Defenses would be ignored. More demands would be made, like for more portals. The game would actually become even less diverse than it is now.

This is what happening now, no? Scarce loot, poor visibility, content like sanctum, and boss moves designed to oneshot any character already push players towards glass cannons. Really tanky builds are exotics for the most knowledgeable players only, and you still use a glass cannon to blast through campaign and gather resources for your tank.

On its own, exp penalty achieves nothing except actively kicking a portion of players out of the game. When deciding new league build, I bet it remains the last concern ever. Players want to try new/buffed skills first.

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Jyrlep#4788 a écrit :

Bro, it's not about what I "want". It's about a mechanic that can literally reverse tens of hours of progress for a casual player because of one mistake (or one lag spike, or one "surprise, you're dead" puddle).

And the funniest part is the penalty scales against you the higher you go.

At level 90 vs level 100, the XP loss per death is basically doubled. You're not just punished more often because you're playing harder content, you're punished harder because you dared to level up. Rough numbers:
- Level 90 death loss is around 15 million XP.
- Level 100 death loss is around 30 million XP.
Even with an Omen, it's still about 3.7 million vs 7.4 million. Same mistake, way bigger rollback.

Then you pile on the zone level XP penalty and it gets even more cursed. The same map becomes worse and worse value as your character levels. For example, in a level 82 map:
- At level 90 you eat about a 54.5% penalty.
- At level 95 you're down to about 12.9%.
- At level 99-100 you're around 6%.

So your gains get decimated while your losses get more brutal. And no, you don't get enough passive points in the 90-100 stretch to "outscale" that math. You get a few points, sure, but the system ramps penalties way faster than those points ramp your defenses/offense.

If we take level 82 maps as the baseline (which is basically what casuals run, not fully juiced T15/T16), level 85 is the last one with 100% gain. After that, it's downhill fast.

And if you actually do the math with XP loss included, the time to go from 85 to 100 on level 82 maps is something like 188x longer than going from 0 to 85. Yes, your character gets stronger, yes you can run harder maps, but that's kind of the point - the system basically forces you into "only grind optimal, only grind safe, don't touch anything interesting" gameplay if you're trying to progress.

I also made a simple table and it shows the same problem from another angle - with the XP penalty, 99 -> 100 alone is about 17x longer. That's not "challenge", that's a second job with a trapdoor under your chair.

If you want to check the numbers:
https://poe2db.tw/us/Experience
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16QHW9GON-kEnLybQp6ikOY7MFbrtq75l9Tu2hYo8mC4

And here's the table screenshot:


So yeah. Keep XP loss if you want. But the current implementation is a wildly outdated flat tax that doesn't match risk/reward, doesn't respect time investment, and disproportionately punishes casuals for doing anything except safe, boring, repetitive content.

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Johny_Snow#4778 a écrit :

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Echothesis#7320 a écrit :

This is what happening now, no? Scarce loot, poor visibility, content like sanctum, and boss moves designed to oneshot any character already push players towards glass cannons. Really tanky builds are exotics for the most knowledgeable players only, and you still use a glass cannon to blast through campaign and gather resources for your tank.

On its own, exp penalty achieves nothing except actively kicking a portion of players out of the game. When deciding new league build, I bet it remains the last concern ever. Players want to try new/buffed skills first.

Literally the same excuses as the ones given in PoE 1. And like them - they don't work. Almost everyone has some rudimentary defenses to prevent one shots. Not from bosses but from normal map mobs. Because no matter how fast you are sometimes you get hit. No exp penalty means that those rare hits can be completely ignored because you don't lose anything other than a portal. Basically the game would become even faster than it is now and the classes who can't keep up would be left in the dust. Another version of PoE 1, something many people here, apparently, don't want.